Ep. 203 - Van Mathias - The Mental Toughness Behind A World Record

[00:00:09] Welcome to Mental Toughness Podcast with Dr. Rob Bell. Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes, executives, and expert coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hinge moment. Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:33] Dr. Rob Bell Acknowledging that it's going to suck right now, but the payoff in the long term is going to be so much better. That's what should drive you through it. And some things, yeah, I don't enjoy like getting up early, staying up late. But I do enjoy a lot of the process. It's just staying tough through all that and knowing that the outcome, that's what you're chasing, essentially.

[00:00:57] This Mental Toughness Podcast is brought to you in part by Morton Brown Family Wealth, helping people connect their financial resources to the life that they want to live. Today's guest, really excited about this one. It's a world record holder, one of the fastest breaststroke swimmers in history. Recently broke the world record in the 100-meter short course breaststroke at the time of 55.14. At the 2026 Pan Pacific Championships, he won five medals, three gold, two silver.

[00:01:24] After finishing second at the 2023 NCAA Championships while competing for Indiana University, stepped away from competitive swimming before returning to the sport, earning a spot in the U.S. national team. He's still director of ops at IU Swimming. Today's guest excited for this conversation, Van Mathias. Van, man. Thanks for joining, bud. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk. Let's just start with October 29th, man. You break the American record in the 100-meter breaststroke during prelims.

[00:01:52] And later that same day, you break the world record. Now, I want to talk about all of it, man. But let's start with like the mindset just going into the prelims, man. Yeah. Well, you know, a lot of preparation went into this. A lot's on the line. Qualify for world championships here in December. So the mindset was just let it rip in the morning and see what we got. A couple of my former teammates and current teammates were swimming in the meet as well. And a guy I'm fond of, Brian Benzing, was in the heat in front of me.

[00:02:20] Dropped a massive best time in the prelims and got me fired up. He was celebrating. So I was like, all right, now it's my turn. So we kept the energy fine that morning and, you know, headed in. I didn't have any doubt or worries in my abilities. All the training was done ahead of time. So I was just ready to rip. When you touch that for the American record. Now, right away, I know there's a little bit of joy, but are you right away being like, man, I know I can go even faster?

[00:02:45] Yeah, it was it was kind of a unique situation, too, because, you know, as soon as I touch the wall, I'm already thinking about the next race. Because, you know, that morning I had a 50 freestyle as well. Must have been less than 20 minutes after. So I touched the wall. That was cool. Awesome. But get ready for the next one. And the time for reflection and celebration can come after. So then when you get ready for finals that night, same thing, man, mindset was just letting it rip and doing what you do.

[00:03:13] Oh, yeah. No, I knew I knew I had some more in the tank. There's some details and stuff in the morning that I, you know, talk with my coaches. I thought I could clean up and get better in the final session. But yeah, I mean, the mindset didn't change really at all. In fact, it even got easier at night knowing that I'd thrown down something crazy that morning. So the confidence was at an all time high. You know, I wasn't worried about winning or losing or going faster. It was just, all right, let's try and do the same thing over. And it ended up being a world record and even better swim.

[00:03:41] So I find that I do my best racing and swim my best swims when my head is empty almost. I'm not thinking about much. Absolutely, man. What's your favorite part of, I mean, I guess just in general, man, like what's your favorite part of like being in that moment and in that swim? It makes you feel alive that you get some good nerves. I feel like I haven't had bad nerves in a long time. When bad nerves, I mean like your body starts to shut down. You start overthinking good nerves.

[00:04:11] Like you're about to do something great. I mean, something special kind of kind of like that fire flight. The engines are firing up ready to go. So I live for that moment. I'm a competitor at heart. I don't like to show it too much and in celebration, whatnot, but like from card games to the pinnacle of the sport, like I'm a competitor. So I don't like to lose. So I enjoy the gamesmanship of the sport. And that's one thing I look forward to.

[00:04:36] And, you know, also just we're in a situation where I've got so many teammates and people I've raced with in this sport. Like, you know, I'm going out there with a bunch of my friends, too. That's one thing that motivates me as well. Definitely one part I want to talk about then when we get to practice. I mean, one thing that you did mention, man, before was all the time when you were done practice that you would really work on your starts because your starts have really vastly improved last couple of years. And I talked to about like, hey, man, focusing on that detail and what a difference that made.

[00:05:06] Yeah, I mean, you know, in talking with John, my coach, like, you know, there was going to have to be some sacrifices I had to make to get where I wanted to be, especially when it came to making my start what it is now. You know, you know, I had to basically reinvent the wheel in terms of my, you know, my arm movement, how I was pushing off the blocks. And that really came from just taking 15 to 20 minutes each day after practice and really working on it. Because it's like it's something, you know, you've been doing for the past 10 years. You're trying to break that habit.

[00:05:36] It's not going to happen overnight. So, you know, it took me a good chunk of a year to get that start dialed in and working on it every day. But it's still not where I want it to be. But it's, you know, light years from what it used to be. And, you know, I think that's one of the things that I prioritize through the past couple of years is setting aside the time to get better things that I don't want to do. Right. I could have just sat back and be like, oh, my start's good enough. But I didn't. I know I needed to make those improvements.

[00:06:05] There was a Hall of Fame football coach that, you know, when I talked to him about mental toughness, he said mental toughness is doing what you don't want to do. And you just and you just said that. Talk to us a little bit more about that, man. Go into detail there. Like what else were some of the things? Hey, man, I didn't feel like doing, but I knew I needed to do them.

[00:06:20] So, yeah, funny enough, I got that quote right here on my computer because I almost think that's like one of the spots where it happens the most for me, you know, is part of being an adult and working a job and being in athletics is like you don't want to wake up early in the morning, go to weights or go to practice or sit behind a desk and respond to emails all day. But like those are the things that you got to do to be successful and set yourself up in the future.

[00:06:45] Acknowledging that it's going to suck right now, but the payoff in the long term is going to be so much better. That's what should drive you through it. And some things, yeah, I don't enjoy like getting up early, staying up late. But I do enjoy a lot of the process. It's just staying tough through all that and knowing that the outcome, that's what you're chasing, essentially.

[00:07:08] About the outcome, man, and that you did the American record in the 50 breast, 25-21, because we know like sub 25 is coming in there, but obviously that wasn't the finish you wanted. You talked about, hey, man, it was a little bit long finish coming into the wall. When you reflect on that, do you focus on that more or do you focus on the accomplishment more? Like how do you kind of compartmentalize both, man? Unfortunately, I think I think about more the what could have gone better.

[00:07:34] You know, the records and the accolades are nice, but I'm focused on what's next, essentially. And how I can take that next step is, you know, I think even if I had somehow gone a world record in that final session, I think I still would have been looking at like, man, my dive wasn't quite as crisp. I could have hit that pull out a little better. So, you know, I think that's the next step in getting better is immediately looking at what you can do to take the next step. That that next step is going to be the details.

[00:08:03] And, you know, that's one thing that I was immediately focused on was like, I wish I had those details back because it's something that I work on at practice all day. But looking back, I can't get too upset. There needs to be some humility and celebration and enjoy the fact that I did something pretty special because it doesn't happen every day. But, you know, I'm that competitor in me is like, I want that next step. Success doesn't make financial decisions easier.

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[00:09:01] If you want a thoughtful strategic approach to life's transitions, retirement, selling a business or even planning for future generations, connect in the link Morton Brown Family Wealth. First American to hold a hundred meter short course breaststroke since Ed Moses, man. Now, I loved watching Ed Moses. I've met him a couple of times. Who did you kind of look up to when you were just getting into the sport? Who were a couple of swimmers you dug?

[00:09:29] It's hard not to look up at the goats of the sport, the Michael Phelps and Ryan Lochte and a lot of those guys and a couple of local heroes like Jacob Pebley was a big one coming from Oregon. And, you know, as I've got a little older, you know, shout out Nick Fink. Like he's kind of my idol and blueprint in terms of working a nine to five and having so many other things going on in life and still being able to achieve and, you know, get better as time goes on.

[00:09:57] So there's a lot of people I look up to, but those are just a few of them. And you've mentioned, man, you're a big relay guy. Yeah. Talk to us about that and that mindset and then just like being part of like team with other people, man. Yeah. I mean, as you know, swimming is an individual sport and people get sucked up in the times and whatnot. But some of my favorite memories, like all the memories that jump out immediately to me through my career have been relays

[00:10:24] and being on a team and being in a moment with three other guys, a couple other ladies. Like swimming for something bigger than myself has always been what I enjoy the most about the sport because you can get wrapped up in doing this for you and your coaches and whatnot. But man, it's something about being together with a couple other athletes and racing together. Like nothing beats it. And all the way back from age group swimming now to professional and collegiate, like relays have always been my favorite. Nice.

[00:10:54] Do you think, do you swim better in relays? I think so. I think so. I've had a pretty good relay start. So that definitely helps. But I've always been a relay swimmer. You know, I could be having a terrible meet individually, but I'll step up on a relay and give you everything I have. So I'd like to think so. Yeah. Very, very cool, man. You know, IU, obviously, man, they have a huge breaststroke lineage. You know, Ray and John sharing practices. But I mean, you've been sharing practices, you know, with Finn Brooks.

[00:11:23] I mean, the sophomores now, right? Josh Bay, Noah, I mean, up and comers. I always say a better us makes a better you. Talk to us about, man, when, and I don't know how the practices are set up, but like when you have a lot of people always striving to get better, how does that make you better? It's great. I mean, as you just mentioned, we have such a diverse group of people, not only from different training backgrounds, different places, but just within breaststroke itself, right? We've got people that are 200 guys.

[00:11:53] We've got people that are just 50 guys. We've got people that some of the whole spectrum, people that train like 200 guys, people that train like 50 guys, someone like Josh, who's got tempo and is a gamer, a competitor. Someone like Finn, who's just, he's a big dude. He carries a lot of speed off the block. So having all those different types of people, all those backgrounds, you know, it really brings a diverse culture to not just our breastshirt group, but the whole team. And that's, I think that's where people thrive the most is when they're being challenged kind of from all angles.

[00:12:23] You know, one thing is keeping the confidence high when you're in such an intense and successful environment, right? Cause you want to be a part of that. You want to contribute to it, but you don't want to get lost along the way. So we, you know, Ray and the staff do a really good job of bringing everyone together, highlighting people, making sure they're getting what they need, individual attention. But, you know, you can see in the results, like it's really paying off what we've got going on here. And, you know, we're trying to be that, that lighthouse for breaststroke

[00:12:51] and really all the strokes, essentially. One of my favorite sayings from the Navy is like, we play like we train. And when you train, man, you go fast in practice. I was hoping you could just shed some light on, man, the importance of that. I guess I'll just kind of leave it there, man. Like talk to us about the importance of that playing like we train. Yeah. I think you see it a lot with my training, especially where a majority of it is going fast all the time. Not only does that build your confidence,

[00:13:20] it gives you a good indicator of where you're at, maybe physically, mentally, but also it allows you to practice the details, right? Like all those things I was harping on earlier. I get maybe five to 10 chances a week to really train those and make those better. The college kids are definitely getting their yards in and making sure they're fit, but they get plenty of opportunities to race and make sure that when race day comes, they're not nervous. They know what to do. It's basically autopilot. So that's where we're trying to be is that,

[00:13:49] you know, all those details that you work on in practice, they're second nature when you're racing. You know, you don't have to stand up there like, oh God, what do I have to do? I have to think about this. My kick counts, my stroke counts. Like, no, it's all there. You've been doing it all week. So obviously, I mean, the stage will change for you coming up here in the next couple of years, but the lane lines are there for a reason, right? Like nobody's in that lane with you, man. You focus on what you can control. Yeah. Talk to us about that mindset, man, the importance of that.

[00:14:19] You know, I think I used to get wrapped up in racing and who's doing what. And, you know, as I've gotten older and a little wiser, I've realized that, yeah, it's really you against you, you against the clock. You know, you're there to compete against others, but that's the fun of the sport. You've probably seen the movie Hoosiers, right? Where he comes out, he takes the tape measure and he measures the height of the net and the height of the cord and everything. And, you know, the same here, like might be going to China for a competition, but with the pool, the distance is still the same.

[00:14:49] So nothing really changes, but it's easy to get wrapped up in the sport and the excitement, you know, the bigger the competition, the more nervous you could get. But, you know, the goal and everything remains the same, right? You're just swimming down and back as fast as you can. Yeah, it's awesome, man. So your time, well, I guess let me ask the question here. I mean, you've got a full-time job, you're director of ops at IU, man. A lot of details that go in with that. And you've even mentioned before, man,

[00:15:17] like swimming becomes kind of a break from your day job, man. Talk to us about that perspective that you have now that maybe you didn't have even in club age group or swimming in college, man. Yeah. I mean, you hit the nail on the head. I think I lost sight of that a little bit when I was in college because, you know, a college schedule, even in the age group, you know, you got maybe you're in high school, you got school and then you got practice afterwards. I mean, it kind of feels like swimming becomes

[00:15:45] another chore on the list of things to do. And, you know, as I graduated, took time away from the sport, you know, I really found that, man, it was a privilege and a joy to have that time in my day to be swimming with my friends competing. I really missed that when I was done and, you know, coming back and now working a full-time job as well. It's like that perspective of, man, I like get to do this. Like, you know, I might have felt like before I had to do this, right?

[00:16:15] I had a scholarship to compete for. You know, I had a roster spot to compete for. And now I feel like I get to do this, right? I have a lot of responsibilities in life now between relationships and job and family, but swimming is a privilege and I get to do this for this team. And I'm so thankful for it. But I really feel like when I came back, it was almost like a whole new sport with that new perspective change, right? I felt like I was able to take advantage of opportunities in practice

[00:16:45] instead of just going through the motions. So it really starts with the mind, I feel like, because, yeah, I might have got a little older, you know, might have put on a little bit of muscle, but changing my mindset and allowing to get that new perspective has really propelled me forward, I think. The difference between wisdom and knowledge, right? I mean, obviously you have wisdom from that. Do you think it was, do you think it's possible just in general to have that shift of perspective, not having the time away from sport? I mean, do you think that was definitely needed for you

[00:17:14] in order to be able to have that new perspective? I think so. You know, I think like in physics, like an object at rest stays at rest, right? You kind of either need some change or some variables in there to kind of alter the whole system and taking some time away from the sport. I mean, I think you'll know talking to anybody that's had any major injury, right, coming back from that, it's tough, but it also, it's like super powerful because you have this sense of urgency and excitement

[00:17:43] and all these kind of emotions that might've got lost along the way kind of return and, you know, that perspective changes. So I think taking some time away was very necessary. Looking for more ways to strengthen your own mental toughness? I've written numerous books that help you perform better, overcome adversity, and get to that next level. Check out my books today at drrobbell.com and remember, subscribe to this podcast. Man, you had a really awesome quote. I wrote this one

[00:18:13] because I'm a quotes honk, man. And you said, think about the times you had more than the times you went in the pool. That was a righteous statement, man. Yeah, it's true. So I'm in it for the fun of it, right? I wouldn't still be doing it if I didn't love the sport and all the moments that it's brought me. Records and times, like someone's gonna go faster than you. You know, someone's gonna eventually beat you. But looking back, you know, those are the memories that you enjoy the most that you're gonna keep with you, that people will keep with them when shit, I'm long gone.

[00:18:44] So that's what I do it for. So do you, with that perspective, do you have more gratitude now? Are you enjoying the moment more? I'm trying to. You know, I still have that competitor in me where I want the next goal, move on, compartmentalize. You know, I think being in this job has helped me work through that. But, you know, I still have those same habits of wanting more. But I've definitely been more appreciative of what's kind of happened and transpired this past year. And thankfully,

[00:19:14] I've got a lot of people around me that also recognize that and help me through that. But it's good to have, you know, your family, your friends recognize how cool something is that you've done. Because sometimes I get lost and lost in the sauce and might not remember, you know, or appreciate everything that's gone on. Do you have a typical way you debrief, like from those races? Like, do you hold on to them for 24 hours or 48? Or is it just like, what do you do? Yeah, I like to, you know, I mean, I'll try and watch

[00:19:43] the race video day of soon after so I can get all the technical stuff. I usually like talking with my coaches, debrief it, what went right, what went wrong, and then kind of move on. I can tell you when I set that world record a few days ago, I was already thinking about I had a bus itinerary due that night for the college team. So I was like, how is all systems go on getting that done and think about it in the morning, I guess. But I try and compartmentalize, analyze it, move on.

[00:20:13] You know, I think when I'm done I can go back and look at all that stuff and revisit it and it's pretty cool to get wrapped up in the moment and remember it that way. You know what I was just thinking about, man, was like the movie Eight Mile when Eminem, you know, he goes, he wins that wrap off or whatever and breaks him down and then goes back to work. You know, it's kind of like that, wasn't it? I feel a lot like Eminem these days. Yeah. On that note, man, like, what about your identity beyond your performance?

[00:20:42] Because it's easy and where you're going, you get the pats in the back, you get the accolades, you strive for this goal, you reach that goal. But talk to us about, man, your identity because you've said, I mean, it used to consume your whole life, man. Now it's just something you get to enjoy and do. Talk to us about that shift. Yeah. You know, I think stepping away from the pool really helped me find kind of who I am and I'm really just trying to be a cool dude outside of the sport of swimming. I, you know, really got an opportunity to find out what I like to do and, you know, I had a whole lot of free time when I was done

[00:21:12] and even when I was still working here. So, figuring out what things I like to do outside of the pool and, you know, find that inner dialogue and who I really am, you know, I think that's kind of starting to blend and, you know, I think those aspects of my personality are starting to show in the sport and who I am. But, you know, I think if you can still kind of keep them separate to a certain degree, I think that's where you're going to be pretty successful. But, I'm in the office or I'm in the pool, I don't have much free time,

[00:21:42] so I'm still trying to figure out how I can spend that and make it the most valuable for me. Do you find it be important though when you're not at work and not in the pool swimming, like to totally disconnect? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Like, I don't really like to talk about swimming too much when, even when I'm working, but even outside of the pool, a lot of my friends, family swam, so they, they're all around it, they know, but, you know, I like fall fantasy football, like I'm a big music guy, movies,

[00:22:11] so like I really just try to shut it off because it's, it consumes a lot of energy when you don't think, you know, even if you're not aware of it, thinking about sport and all those things, like it takes up time and energy. So if you could save that, conserve it, actually put it into the sport when you need it, I think that's important. Man, you got that, you got that Team USA cap now, right? Yeah, I do. I got a couple of them. Nice, man. What feeling was that? I would say

[00:22:41] humility. I had a lot of teammates, a lot of people I look up to have their name on that cap and for it to finally be me, you know, I'm, I'm truly honored. I'm humbled by it and even just having your name on your cap, it's a big responsibility. You know, you're not only just representing yourself now, but Team USA as well. So it's exciting. You know, I don't take it for granted, but I'll tell you what, it's pretty cool. It feels pretty cool. Absolutely, man. And is that one of those things, man,

[00:23:10] where like other people are wearing that cap during practice? Sometimes. I haven't quite, I haven't quite given, I haven't quite given it out too many times yet, but I've really just kind of kept it for me for now. But, you know, I try not to wear it too much during practice lately. I've been repping, repping the school and repping what I stand for. So it'll come out for sure. Yeah. Love it, man. So when you were out of swimming, man, you talked about lifting and you got up to like 235.

[00:23:38] What was like your favorite lift? We were benching a lot. Oh, really? I was, I was doing a whole lot of bench press. I got long levers, so I'm not really made for compound lifts like squats and whatnot. Legs are too long, but one thing I could get behind was benching pretty heavy. So that was one of our favorites while we were lifting a lot. How strong did you get there, man? I got up to, I could do 275 for a couple. That was kind of my, when we tested our max, that was the last time I tested it.

[00:24:08] Mass was mass. So I was putting on some weight, doing nothing, but lifting iron. And, you know, I've had to kind of balance that out and tone that down a little bit since I've been in the water because as cool as muscle is, it doesn't quite float as well and it needs to be conducive to swimming. So we still bench pretty heavy, but it's not the focus now. Yeah. When you're doing your lifts now in dry land, is it focused on acceleration training? Yeah. I mean, we try and be explosive. I think part of it

[00:24:37] is also building up that capacity. So making sure you can still lift heavy. You know, I think if you have a greater strength capacity, the more you can tap into it in the pool. We do do some volume training, but it's really trying to be explosive. You know, the events I swim, it's start and stop. It's less than 30 seconds of work. So how can we get a maximum amount of output in that time? And we're doing some different stuff in the weight room to try and maximize that. And, you know, a cool thing is that

[00:25:07] the lifts have kind of changed since I started this program and this new training. And it's really cool to kind of see the progression as well. Like some things we really like, some things we're kind of lacking we found in the last couple of meets. So, you know, sprinkling some new stimulus here and there. So it's not the same old, same old because that's how I think you can get a little fatigued. Episode 194, Dennis Morton and Katie Brown, the relationship side of wealth management.

[00:25:36] That is the idea at the heart of Morton Brown Family Wealth. Money doesn't exist separately from the rest of your life. Your career, family, relationships, goals, and values all shape the decisions you make with it. Morton Brown helps clients bring those pieces together. Check out the link, Morton Brown Family Wealth. You know, I kind of keep getting back to that perspective shift that you had, man, from being 18, 19 to where you are now. What advice would you tell, let's just say you're talking

[00:26:06] to age group or somebody's listening to this because what I always think that's cool, man, is you don't know the impact that what you're doing now on that next generation coming, but let's say it's a little kid or they're in age group. Like, what would you tell them, man, in terms of how to keep that perspective, how to keep it fun and stay focused? Yeah, I mean, I think you said it right there is to have fun. Right? Like, don't lose the fun aspects of swimming in the sport. Right? Like, I remember being at meets and, you know, hanging out with your friends,

[00:26:35] playing cards in between races and riding your heats and layings down on your hands. Like, small stuff like that, right, that just keeps it fun. And don't lose sight of that because, you know, when the stages get bigger, when you're training more, when you're trying to go faster, that can kind of cloud the vision. And it's obviously conducive to faster swimming, but you got to keep that mindset throughout or else, you know, you're going to start, things are going to start falling and failing on you. One other thing I would say is

[00:27:05] be conscious and be present. I feel like there were so many days where I could have gotten better in the pool, but I just kind of like shut my brain off, didn't care, just kind of went through the motions instead of being intentful and having a goal and a focus for the practice. Why do you think that was, man? I mean, when you're in the pool a lot, you got to kind of, I think your body and your brain subconsciously protect you a little bit. It's like if you were to,

[00:27:35] if you had to just run every day, right, you wouldn't start out at a full sprint. Like if you're training for a marathon, you wouldn't sprint as hard as you could each day until you gave up. It's probably what you should do, but your body's going to protect you a little bit. Your brain's going to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. We got to get through this. Just be conscious and be intentful on what you're doing in practice. And I think that's what can make it fun, right? If you're just focusing on your hand position, think about your hand position

[00:28:05] all practice and you'll find that practice isn't so boring or laborious. I guess the last thing I'd say is be coachable and patient. Being coachable is probably one of the top reasons where I am today. Even through age group swimming, you know, my coaches would be like, hey, you got to swim a mile at this next meet. I don't want to swim a mile, but it gave me that perspective and be like, dude, I swam a mile last week. I got a 50 freestyle now. This is nothing, right?

[00:28:35] So being coachable and allowing your coaches to challenge you, give you tips and technique changes. And I think a lot of that comes from just the willingness to learn. You know, being coachable and wanting to learn kind of go hand in hand. So never stop learning. I'm still learning stuff about my start and finishes and turns and how I can get faster. And, you know, that's kind of gotten me where I am now is that excitement and hunger to learn. You mentioned how

[00:29:04] Coach John's gotten in the pool with you some of those workouts and Coach Ray. Like, talk to us about just a little bit further like in terms of the be coachable part. Like, what are some of those things, man, that you've got coach's voice in your head in terms of like that coachability? Yeah. I mean, part of it is just respect. Like, I have a lot of respect for Ray and John and what they've done and everything they're trying to do. You know, not just as one of their athletes but also as a peer, right? You know, being on the same staff as them. I know their goals,

[00:29:33] their ambitions. So, I have a lot of respect for those guys. So, when they're telling me to maybe change something or think about this another way, I'm very open to it. I'm very receptive of their advice and whatnot. That's another thing is they're a lot wiser than I am. They've seen a lot more things than me. So, I'm very, very excited to hear stories and insight and, you know, because they've been in situations that I might have not have been in. We've got a really unique dynamic. I've got a really unique dynamic with John is that he's also super curious

[00:30:03] to learn and try new things because we're kind of in this boat together right now figuring out what we're doing and why we're so successful with it. So, even though Ray and John are both my very close friends and, you know, we share a staff together but I've got a lot of respect for them. So, if they tell me to do something I'm going to do it. No, I appreciate that, man. So, the director of ops with a lot of details that you have, do you take that same mentality

[00:30:32] in with you like towards your practices knowing, hey man, this is exactly what we got today and then, like, are you a planner when it comes to that outside of swimming? Yes and no. I'm trying to be very, very occupied like organized and make sure everything's set up ahead of time with work because operations is basically a whole lot of planning and being flexible when things don't go right. So, I'm trying to be super organized in my work life but sometimes

[00:31:02] when it comes to swimming I don't quite want that. That's why I was wondering is there a dynamic when it comes to that or is that more freedom for you? Yeah, I mean, I've had to be pretty flexible with my training schedule as well so, I mean, John knows sometimes we're like, hey, let's just kind of play hacky sack for 20 minutes for warm-up instead of doing a dry land and then we'll get in and do what we have to do in the pool but I do try and be intentful and thorough in my workouts but, you know, I kind of just like to as soon as I step on the pool deck

[00:31:32] then it's like, okay, we'll do it. I'm not really thinking about what I got to do at practice while I'm here at work you know, I feel like that's kind of a waste of energy. I need to devote it towards what I'm doing now but, yeah, I try and be the opposite funny enough when it comes to training. Obviously, we keep, John's got a very organized plan and it's all built out but that's what beginning of the season meetings are for, right? Planning it out ahead of time. We don't need to do it all once we step on the deck. I mean,

[00:32:02] it seems college swimming has changed, dude. I mean, it's spectator sport now. It's really cool. Talk to us about looking at it from your perspective at the CSL and everything. It's exciting. I mean, there might have been maybe one or two meets in my college career throughout the regular season especially early on when we'd suit up and try and go really fast and now it feels like every dual meet is a spectacle and everybody's throwing their best at you. You know, we've seen some of the fastest

[00:32:31] swims in history and it's only just now turning to November which I feel like you usually see come February and March so the sport's definitely changing and I think it is beneficial you know, having things like the CSL different events to try and put eyeballs on the sport because I do think it's a really cool sport. I think there's a lot of cool storylines and if we can keep pushing those then, you know, it'll grow bigger but it's really cool to see and, you know, it's motivating for me too seeing what the college kids are doing when they

[00:33:01] go out to CSL and kick ass and swim really fast that motivates me as well because I'm like I'm at the same place they are you know, I'm working just as hard so why can't I but it's cool it's really rewarding I'm a fan of what we're doing and really excited to kind of see where it goes next year in the future. I mean, you got all the shackles there man at IU you got Luke Whitlock man like that's a that's a roster man. Yeah, no, it's, I mean, I feel like I say this every year but I'm always like man, this team is loaded

[00:33:30] and then next year's roster I'm like forget, forget where we were last year I mean, we got some real players so it hasn't come easy you know, the culture and what we've built here especially Ray being here for the past 20 plus years like he's worked very, very hard to get to where we are today and we're always looking for that next edge how we can make that next jump up. Want to build your mental toughness beyond this podcast? Sign up for my free mental toughness newsletter every week

[00:34:00] I share practical insights and strategies to help you be the best at getting better and remember it's not about the setback it's about the comeback subscribe today drrobbell.com Did you ever think you'd be walking out on the court of IU getting introduced waving your hand and everything during a basketball game? No, no, not, I mean, those kinds of things you can never really dream about I feel like they just kind of happen and you take it in as it happens Yeah,

[00:34:30] definitely be pretty cool though, man It is pretty cool especially now that we got a football team you got some people in the stands I spent a little bit of time out in Bend, Oregon, man, for a couple golf points man, that is such a beautiful part of the country, man, Pacific Northwest, man I'm a big fan I do miss it out there especially the landscape I mean, it's tough to beat having the coast and great skiing and altitude and it's gorgeous out there,

[00:35:00] but I will say the Midwest has definitely become home for me home away from home Yeah, people are great here, man, so awesome here A lot I mean, when you first get out here they talk about that Midwest hospitality, but it's true I mean, people are always looking out for you, very friendly and sometimes confrontational but in a good way, right? They're excited to meet you and talk to you Van, I've enjoyed this, man, I just want to ask if I'm missing anything, what questions should I be asking man that I'm not

[00:35:30] asking? I mean, that is the thing, right? We're always asking questions but I don't know, I mean, I think you're enjoying it just as much as I am. Like, this has been really fun to watch and I guess to be a part of and be doing, but I can't really think of anything. What about when the goalposts move? And it's always like that because on one hand, you've kind of mentioned it, right? It's on to the next. We still got these areas. Do you just lose yourself in the process of getting better and hey, man,

[00:36:00] the goalposts are going to be what the goalposts are going to be? Yeah, I mean, you know, I think it's good too. So my processes stay the same. It's having fun, working hard, seeing where it gets me. But obviously the accolades and the achievements, they're kind of changing.

[00:36:30] You know, the goals are changing. So I think as long as you keep that process the same for the most part, I mean, you can just keep achieving and achieving. I think it's when you start to fail, you learn the most, obviously, but not completely scrapping and abandoning the shit, right? Like, staying true to what you're doing, you know, have faith that it's going to work out, which is kind of what I had, like, especially in this whole thing, John was like, let's try this. I don't know if it's going to work. Like, you know,

[00:37:00] he was up front with me. He was honest with me. He's like, I don't know if this is going to work for you, but we're going to try and we're going to see what happens. And, you know, having the willingness to accept that and be like, all right, let's do it. If we fall flat, we fall flat, but we're going to have fun along the way. We're going to look good doing it. Yeah. And that Norway, I mean, that was sort of that first breakthrough, wasn't it? Yeah, I mean, we had talked about doing some big things that year and started off just making the national team and obviously Norway was

[00:37:29] kind of my first real chance that year to do something long course. It was really just looking like a fun trip with my friends to see a country I'd never been before and enjoy the city and culture and meet new people and turning out being one of the best meets of the year. And I think that mindset of going in got nothing to lose. This is the first real chance to maybe prove myself, see what happens. And the rest is history. I swam lights out and I don't think I did anything special leading up

[00:37:59] to it training-wise. I think I just had an eager mindset to tackle it, see what happens. But yeah, Norway was really cool and I think that was the first big step in getting to where we are today. A lot of doors opened after that one. And that FMC Netatory, what did they do? Do they keep your goggles or cap or anything for you? I don't know about that, but FMC is a great pool. It's a fast pool. I think

[00:38:29] whenever they can host a big meet like that there, they should because you get a good crowd of people. A lot of people care about swimming in that area. Chicago area is well-loved and they put on a great event. This was the first time we had a short course trials meet for short course meters before. So that was a first and I think it was a great success. What? Six, five or six world records and how many U.S. Open and American records. I think it was really cool.

[00:38:59] Really cool event. That's awesome, man. Van, appreciate you coming on, man. Congrats on that and everything that's coming up and keep having fun, man. Thank you so much, man, for joining us. Of course. Thank you for having me. It was a pleasure. Thanks for listening to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. To find out more about Dr. Rob, visit his website at drrobbell.com or follow him on Twitter at

[00:39:28] drrobbell and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of Mental Toughness as soon as it's available. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.