Ep. 201 - Webb Simpson - Faith And The Hinge Moment That Won The US Open

[00:00:09] Welcome to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes, executives, and expert coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hinge moment. Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:34] I got a lot of burdens I feel like going on in my heart, in my mind, and I'm in that place where you feel like you have a lot going on. And I read Psalm 94 and verse 19 said, The cares of my heart are many, but your consolations are good for my soul. It meant so much to me. It felt like, okay, Lord, not only do you see me, do you know me, but you just encourage me through your word.

[00:00:57] So, to your listeners, I mean, I know you've probably talked about this many times, but God's word is living and active. It's powerful. It is relevant. There's nothing more true in the whole world than what God has already spoken and said. The Mental Toughness Podcast is presented by Morton Brown Family Wealth, helping individuals and families make confident financial decisions and build wealth with purpose.

[00:01:21] Today's guest is a major champion, seven-time winner on the PGA Tour. He won the 2012 U.S. Open at Olympic Club, won the Players' Championship in 2018. He was four-time All-American at Wake Forest and 2008 ACC Player of the Year. He's representing the United States in three Ryder Cups, three President's Cups. He's also served as assistant captain on the Ryder Cup and President's Cup team, including this year's President's Cup at Medina, under Captain Brent Snedeker.

[00:01:49] Co-host of Bible Caddy Podcast with fellow PGA Tour winner Ben Crane and William Cain, combining golf conversation with Bible study. He's a husband, father of five. Excited for this conversation today. Please welcome to the podcast, Webb Simpson. My man, Webb. Thanks, bud, for taking the time. Dr. Bell, thanks for having me. Love being on here with you today. The reason why this came to be was my daughter's in Charlotte, so we take a weekend trip.

[00:02:16] She committed to Johnson & Wales University. She loves baking. She's going to play tennis there. On the way to the airport, one of my mates who I met with and we connected with, he asked her the question. She said, well, one thing that's always funny about my dad is wherever we go, he always knows somebody. Well, right away, I dismissed it, Webb. I was like, you know, this is not true. She said, well, every sporting event we go to, you always know somebody. And I said, well, okay, maybe that's true. And then, I mean, not more than five minutes later, we're in the airport,

[00:02:45] and then here comes Webb Simpson on just passing each other, right? And it planted the seed, though. It was like, man, why don't you have Webb on the podcast? You know, so I always think that's how God works, but that's why I reached out, man. I just thought it was a funny story. I had to start the podcast with that, man. That is awesome. So is she the resident chef in your family? Oh, man, she's baking right now, man. That is awesome. What's her specialty? If she had to make her best baked good, what is it? Man, so she, like pies and cookies. Yeah.

[00:03:15] Pies and cookies, man. Can't go wrong there. She's doing an internship right now, so she's selling a bunch of cookies, and yeah, it's great, man. That's great. Good for her. Absolutely, man. We always talk about, like, she'll pray over the batches that she makes, you know what I mean? Because it's like, hey, man, this is more than just, like, cookies. Like, you bringing, we talk about the aroma of Christ, right? That's right. With the aroma of cookies, man, and it's like... That's really cool. Yeah, it's always a deeper purpose there. That's awesome. Good for her.

[00:03:44] Let's start with the Bible Caddy podcast, man. I think you guys do a fantastic job. I want to delve into that first. I mean, what's always fascinated me, I mean, William Cain, childhood friend of yours. And it was kind of one of those stories, right? It's like, hey, man, I'm going to make it on the PGA Tour. You're going to caddy for me. But the ministry part of your relationship, man, that took off way deeper than golf. I was hoping you could pick us up from there. For sure. You know, it goes back to, we were 12 and 13, and we hung out one summer, all summer, playing golf every day.

[00:04:12] And we kind of had this little dream we would discuss about him caddy for me on the PGA Tour, if I ever got onto the PGA Tour. So the dream was set from a young age. The dream came to fruition 2008. I got my tour card. William's caddy for me, first couple years on tour. But the Lord had really got a hold of his heart a few years prior. And man, he was on fire for Jesus. He was devouring the Bible, good Christian books. He was learning like crazy, falling in love with Jesus.

[00:04:42] The gospel really transformed his life. And I was about a couple years behind him. But right after I became a Christian my senior year of college is when I turned pro. So the Lord just puts people in our path. And I know a lot of your listeners can probably relate to this, that God knew I needed some kind of mentoring and some sharpening by, a lot of times a mentor relationship is someone that's a lot older, mentoring someone who's a lot younger. But William was, you know, spiritually speaking, a few years older than me at the time.

[00:05:12] So his zeal for the Lord is rubbing off on me. And that kind of started our professional career together. Well, the Lord had different plans for William. I stayed playing golf and hired Paul Tesori. But we stayed in such close proximity through our relationship in life, whether it's faith or sports or just friendship, that us talking about the Bible was a very normal occurrence every week. What do you learn in the Word? What do you learn in the Word? What's God teaching you?

[00:05:41] All that was very normal for us. And then him and Ben Crane are living in the same city. They become great friends. And Ben was a mentor to both of us when I was a rookie on tour, in many ways, as a Christian, as a golfer, all that kind of stuff. So we were already kind of tight, the three of us. And it just kind of happened. Like, is there a way we could embrace technology? We all have our mixed feelings on technology, but could we embrace it in a way that gets the gospel into more people's hands?

[00:06:10] It certainly seems like the podcast world has grown fast. Certainly seems like there is an interest and a need among the golf community to hear about the good news of Jesus. And Dr. Bell, one of the early pieces of feedback we got is, hey, this is a great tool that I can talk about golf and the gospel. And it feels pretty natural in the way I'll do it in the podcast. And that kind of snowballed into what we have now, the Bible Caddy podcast.

[00:06:37] And I think what we're most excited about is our feature groups. You know, these are kind of on the ground Bible studies at local clubs or workplaces, or even in people's homes that they're using Bible Caddy material. Really what it is, is we feel like we're a vessel that God's using to get His Word to more people. And we love that promise that God gives in Isaiah 55, that basically where His Word is preached, it's not going to return void to the Lord.

[00:07:07] And so we're trusting God with all the fruit, all the results. We're just trying to be, with God's help, we're trying to be faithful administers of His Word to the golf world, which has been such a fun three-year-plus ride for us. I think the featured groups of what you have is obviously a special extension of it, man, because of how many different groups men are actually using the materials then just to share the Word. So I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, that's been neat.

[00:07:36] I mean, we have 215-plus feature groups around the world. And I think the burden of being a Bible study leader or a small group leader, the burden comes, it's a blessing and a burden, right? The burden is you've got to prepare and you've got to spend a lot of time preparing to be a faithful minister of God's Word. But the blessing, obviously, we know that God meets and works in that preparation time. But we feel like this is a fun little sweet spot of we've already kind of done the prep for you.

[00:08:06] We're not familiar with the material. But I think it's a lot less of a burden. So more people are open to do it in their busyness of life. So that's been kind of fun feedback we've heard from people. It's awesome, man. Yeah. Every episode, there's a saying like, let's get in the Word and let the Word get into us. That's right. And we talked to us a minute about how that time in the Bible and just like, how is that doing the Bible study podcast, man, or the Bible caddy podcast?

[00:08:33] How does that reshape your mental approach just to life and then how you approach it? There's so many parallels. My wife has a great saying that all capital T truth is God's truth. So there's many things in this world that a secular person would hold to that's true. Well, we as Christians believe that ultimately you can trace that back to the truth of God in some form or fashion, whether it's His Word or something He's done or something He's constructed from His own mind.

[00:09:00] And in your world, I'm sure you're working with people all the time and it's a normal thing to bring up. Like what we're feeding our mind is kind of what we're going to functionally start believing. My dad used to tell me who we surround ourselves is who we become over time. And so it is with the Word of God. Like if we're having a regular healthy intake of the Word of God, eventually that Word's going to get in us and be a part of us and it will shape how we think because our feelings

[00:09:28] can be a blessing, but they also are very fleeting. You know, like our feelings aren't necessarily untrue, but they can be. And so how do we kind of cover our feelings with the truth of God's Word? Because oftentimes I know my feelings, my heart will take me to places that aren't true and aren't healthy. And so, yeah, that's a phrase that we've had for a long time and we believe it. And I think individually, Ben and I and William, we'd all tell you that if we're not individually

[00:09:56] meeting with God and getting into the Word, there is no place for us to be doing this on the podcast. The podcast needs to be an extension or an overflow of what we're already doing in our individual times with the Lord. But man, nothing has changed my life more than God's Word. And it continues to be that way for me every day. I mean, even this morning, I got a lot of burdens, I feel like going on in my heart, in my mind. And I'm in that place where you feel like you have a lot going on.

[00:10:26] And I read Psalm 94 and verse 19 said, the cares of my heart are many, but your consolations are good for my soul. And it just, it meant so much to me. It felt like, okay, Lord, not only do you see me, do you know me, but you just encourage me through your Word. So to your listeners, I mean, I know you've probably talked about this many times, but God's Word is living and active. It's powerful. It is relevant. It meant there's nothing more true in the whole world than what God has already spoken and said.

[00:10:55] Yeah, I love that, man. I often think of God as an experience. You're giving that experience to listeners. Yeah. And what I mean by that is like, my son and I, we went to the Forrest Frank show a couple months ago. And it dawned on me in that moment what it meant like the childlike faith. Because it was all the kids that were praising, right? A lot of the parents were still sitting down and everything. Now, I was dancing with my son, and he's the one that turned me on to Forrest Frank.

[00:11:22] But that experience, like, oh, okay, that's what it meant. Like, that's what I love about the Word is because the Word stays true, but we approach it as, you know, just different people at different times. That's right. Like, there's another verse in Psalm 119 that says, your word is exceedingly broad beyond perfection. And to your point of the experience of God, I think that verse is hinting at when Rob Bell hears a verse and I hear the same verse in the same moment.

[00:11:51] God could use it in your life in a different way than he could use it in my life, but both are good and for his purposes. And so, man, it's just, it's inexhaustible, right? If someone gives their whole life to the study of it, at the end of their life, they'll want more time to study it. So, what a treasure. You know, I saw, like, Titus 3, 3-7. Is that still one of your life verses? Probably so. I mean, if someone asked my favorite verse or verses, I'd probably go to Titus 3, 3-7. Yep.

[00:12:21] Can you share it with the listeners? For sure. It says,

[00:12:53] So that being justified by his works, we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. And I think the why I love that passage is the Bible is so honest. In a day and age of truth being relative and everyone claiming their own truth, which is not true at all, that kind of, that argument falls apart. There is a truth.

[00:13:18] And whether someone's listening who doesn't believe in the gospel or not, what Jesus has revealed is true about himself. And the Apostle Paul I love so much because he's honest. But the honesty, you know, to have good news, you got to have bad news, right? For good news to be good, there must be bad news. And the bad news is that before coming to Christ, we all have the biggest problem as a commonality between us, that our sin has made us guilty before a perfect and holy God.

[00:13:48] But there's good news in that Jesus came to die for sinners. And so it's like a mini gospel story in the midst of four verses there in Titus that Paul is speaking about. But the good news is offered to all people who would repent and turn from their sin and follow him. And that's the crazy reality of following God is like when you actually die to yourself, as Jesus says, you actually taste freedom for the first time.

[00:14:14] You know, when you live for someone outside of yourself, that's when real freedom, joy, happiness come, I think, for everyone. Amen. When you look back on, and I won't say look back, but with your kids, when you became a father for the first time, when I became a father for the first time, I realized and it kind of started to make sense, oh, okay, this is Jesus's love, but it doesn't even comprehend. But I could sort of comprehend it.

[00:14:40] And then when I had my second, now the width of it, right? I was like, well, I could never love anything as much as my daughter, but now I have my son. And now it's like, I love them both the same. How has having children increased your faith or just, you know, going deeper with that? Yeah, that's such a good question. I think about it often, just the love of the father that he has for us. Because, you know, that passage where Jesus talks about if you who are evil know how to

[00:15:08] give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly father give good gifts to you? So I know my own heart. I know my sinfulness, my selfishness, but I also know the love I have for James, Willow, Winnie, Mercy, and Eden. And when I'm not patient, I'm reminded that God is always patient with me. When I think things like, how do you not get this by now? He reminds me, well, that's what I think of you often. How do you not get this by now?

[00:15:37] But yeah, you do really understand the idea of nothing my son James can do could change my love for him, you know, that unconditional love of God the father to us. Now, there's certainly things he can do to bring me joy or not, but there's nothing that can change this inexplainable love that I have for him that I always will have for him.

[00:16:00] So yeah, it does certainly encourage me in the faith knowing if I, a sinful, imperfect, far from perfect human being can have this amount of love for someone, what God feels towards me is crazy and incomprehensible, but encouraging. Yeah. Thank you for that, man. Yeah. You and your family, do you watch The Chosen? We do. We actually watched one last night. Oh, man. Just seeing it kind of come alive.

[00:16:28] I mean, there's so many episodes, man, that are just like at tears throughout. Yeah, I'm really excited for that, man. But I just love watching it come to life like that. Yeah. You know, you read these stories and you're familiar with them, but to kind of see the color to them and kind of drawn out is really cool and really special and has led to some great conversations with my kids. And when you think about the aroma of Christ, what comes to mind?

[00:16:52] Yeah, I think are we living our life in a way that not only brings this sweet aroma to God that His people are living in a way that He has called them to, but also our life is on display. And so often we don't think our life is on display. Like my kids, for example, they're watching us and listening to us way more than I realize. Sometimes I don't think they're listening at all based on their choices, but they're really

[00:17:20] observant and they're watching me and my wife and what we care about, what gets us excited. They're hanging on to a lot more than we realize. But also in our communities, in our neighborhoods, God calls us to be this aroma so that Christians should look different than the world. Not in every way, right? Where Paul says to become all things to all people in order that he may win some to Christ.

[00:17:44] And so we do want to be a part of these communities or workplaces where people feel comfortable around us. But at the same time, our devotion to God and the way we live our life should stand out where people can say, oh, well, the Bells are different. The Simpsons are different. Why? And I don't want it to be about me or Dow, but I want it to be a reflection of the Lord. And so that's actually a prayer of ours often is that we would be a sweet aroma to people around us.

[00:18:15] And you always have situations where godliness or living for Jesus offends people, but we're promised that we will experience persecution if we live for Jesus. And so it's in a way we can identify with him in the way he was persecuted and Paul and all the Christian saints before us. Yeah. Awesome, man. Thank you for sharing that. Yeah. In 2010, I did a practice round with you and Paul.

[00:18:45] I was with Scott Stalins at the time at Quail Hollow. And one of the parts that I just remember that stuck out to me was four or five holes in, Paul told me, and he just said, look, this is the most mentally tough player that I've worked with. Yes. And again, worked with Sean O'Hara, but worked with Vijay. And I remember holding on to that. And I said, that's quite powerful, man. And I know I'm taking it back a little bit, but man, talk about that relationship with Paul. Yeah.

[00:19:14] Paul's meant so much to my career. I felt like I was a pretty good tour player my first couple of years. And then Paul comes along and he really mentored me on course management and specifically how to play certain holes at certain golf courses, how to practice. He was already a great player, but Vijay, I think, taught him so much on practice and how to get better. So Paul was giving me that information and I saw an immediate impact.

[00:19:43] And how to practice fundamentals. Paul's such an old school type of mind when it comes to fundamentals, which I love. You know, in a day and age of technology, which can be helpful for the golfers. Nothing replaces fundamentals. I think we're seeing it with Scotty Scheffler. Grip, setup, being square to your target. All those things that Scotty does so well. It's easy to lose that in the age of technology. So Paul has always kind of grounded me in those fundamental things that matter.

[00:20:10] But yeah, it was like a snowball in our first year together in a good way of confidence where I believe for the first time that I not only belonged on the tour, but I could win on tour. And then making the President's Cup team, you know, get my first win in August, making the President's Cup team that year in Australia. It just felt like Paul was making me believe in myself more than I had up until that point. And outside of my wife, I spent more time with Paul than any human on the planet.

[00:20:39] You know, you're with him all day, every day, playing 26, 27 tournaments a year. And you get to know each other really well. So he knows me on my good days, my bad days, my patient days, my impatient days. A caddy, in a funny sense, is kind of wearing a lot of hats in your life. Friend, mentor, for us, brothers in Christ. I, in a way, a mental coach, you know, knowing how to put me back in the lane I need to stay in to compete at a high level.

[00:21:06] So, man, it was a gift from the Lord to have him take the chance on me in a way. Because he had opportunities to work for other top 20 players in the world at the time that I hired him. And I think I was 213th in the world ranking when he said yes to me, which didn't make a lot of sense that he would come work for me. But I think the idea of a young player that he could help grow and mature into a great player really excited him. It proves he's a purist.

[00:21:35] He doesn't caddy for someone just because he thinks he's going to make a lot of money. He's very selective on who he works with because he loves the process. The most important thing Paul's ever taught me as it relates to golf is this, that he told me early on, he's like, I don't care how we finish this week. I don't care about the next month. I don't even care about this season. I want us to build something together that will last you 15 years plus of a career on the PGA Tour.

[00:22:04] And in the day and age of immediate gratification, that was really good for me as a young 24-year-old to hear that I bought it. I'm in for the long haul, Paul. So it makes you be more patient in the weeks where you don't finish the way you want because you're kind of always looking to the future in a good way. And I remember Tiger, when he won the 97 Masters, his dad gave him this image, and I'm paraphrasing, but his dad would tell him to putt or to paint the picture.

[00:22:35] So he had this picture in mind of what he wanted, whether it was to win the Masters or a career on the PGA Tour. But he was always painting each shot, each putt. He's painting the picture of what he wanted. And that's kind of what I think of when I think of the way Paul viewed his role in my life was to get me thinking long-term, not just short-term. Success doesn't make financial decisions easier. Sometimes it gives us more decisions to make.

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[00:23:28] If you want a thoughtful, strategic approach to life's transitions, retirement, selling a business, or even planning for future generations, connect in the link, Morton Brown Family Wealth. Earlier this season, when you guys get together, I mean, you even said, man, I'm trying to get back to my 2011 mindset of long-term goals. Is that what that means? Yeah, totally. I mean, when you're playing bad and poorly like I have for a few years, you want and feel like you need one good tournament.

[00:23:58] And so you can hang on too tight. You can press too hard. But like Paul was up here in Charlotte yesterday, we were working. And Paul, I even brought up Asheville as my next tournament. And I mentioned a comment as in, I care a lot about what I finished that week. And he had to remind me of what we're doing and why we're doing it. We're building towards hopefully a next great year, two, three years on the PGA Tour, not just Asheville.

[00:24:23] And I think he thinks if I put so much pressure and so much weight into one event, I'm kind of creating an unnecessary burden of pressure that doesn't need to be there. And in his words, he just said, look, let's just show up in Asheville, very prepared. Yes. Feeling confident. Yes. But let's just go compete one day at a time. Let's not try to win. Let's just go compete and have fun while we're doing it. I'm like, that's a great, I needed that reset yesterday. Yeah.

[00:24:53] You know, I know you have one of your goals to still win another major championship. Yeah. Which you definitely can do. Yeah. Again, earlier this season, like Brant wins and the conversation you have with him. I mean, it was that belief to still that force. How important is that piece when it comes to, I mean, trying to reach those pinnacles? It's so important. I mean, Justin Rose having a great run here in his mid-40s. Gary Woodland winning the Houston Open and then Brant winning.

[00:25:22] Like, that's all super inspiring for me. Lucas Glover, you know, he turned his career into one of the best players in the world again. All those things are very inspiring for me as a 41-year-old. But yeah, belief is huge. And I think your job speaks way more to this, and you're an expert on this, but it's almost impossible to create confidence if you really don't believe it,

[00:25:46] which is why you kind of need like correct fundamentals and like actual fruit in your golf game mixed with real mental toughness and confidence. And when those are going together in the right direction, then you have something that's like, you're going to see results eventually. I think for a while, I was kind of, I felt like in the wilderness of not believing that I'm getting better in the physical part of the game, not believing that my swing is getting better.

[00:26:14] And so that was kind of this tough season of my life professionally because I knew if this didn't get better, then I couldn't just fake confidence. But I also knew that like it wasn't healthy for me to stay not confident for a long term. So, and then I started pressing a little bit like, I've got to get better. I've got to get better.

[00:26:35] And it was just a tough time of not feeling peace or kind of that still inner confidence that I love so much where you just are a little bit, you exhale, you're at ease. I feel like I'm there now in a great way. I feel like I'm actually seeing real progress on the physical side of the game. I'm almost having to relearn like, oh yeah, you can do this. You can shoot 65. 65.

[00:27:04] You are good enough. And kind of back to what we were saying earlier in the podcast, self-talk is so important. What we're feeding our minds with. Tim Keller, one of my favorite pastors who has passed away now, but he used to talk about we got to talk to ourselves way more than listen to ourselves because we say a lot of things to ourselves or we listen to a lot of things we're saying throughout the day, but we've got to get kind of a grip on what are we telling ourselves? Things that are true.

[00:27:32] Jerry Haas has been your coach for a long time, man. I mean, was he the one that said everything affects everything? No, that was my mentor, Dave Owen. Okay. But it's funny you bring up Jerry because he and I were texting this morning. Yeah. Talk to us about that relationship. Yeah, man. Jerry was so meaningful in my life those four years. And I was with him as much as anybody during my four years awake. And my dad was very influential in my life.

[00:27:59] But outside of my dad, those four years is Jerry Haas. And our relationship meant so much to me. He was in my wedding. He was one of my groomsmen. And Jerry was so good at teaching you these little pieces of wisdom that really matter in the game that I still think about to this day as a pro. Like, for example, he was good about having all these mini goals or mini games throughout the day. Like, if you're one over through three, spend the next three holes trying to get one of those back. Or the next six trying to get one.

[00:28:27] Like, so all these little mini tournaments that I think keep you mentally focused and engaged and excited. And no one has to know that you're doing it in your head. But like Greensboro, I shot three under the first two days. But Jerry always said as a pro, right when I turned pro, he goes, Hey, if you make the cut and your weekend score beats your first two days, you typically will have a pretty good finish. So Jerry pops in my head. I'm like, all right, I got a good goal this weekend. If I can shoot four under or better, I'm going to have a pretty good finish.

[00:28:57] And sure enough, I think I did it. I shot maybe four under and, you know, moved up the leaderboard as the weekend went on. So the coach has a very powerful voice in the life of their student. And Jerry was no exception to that. And I just love seeing the guys that he's produced. Will Zaltoros, Cameron Young, Michael Brennan, Kyle Reifers. I mean, Bill Haas. There's been so many incredible players that went to Wake and learned from him.

[00:29:25] And I tell people often when it comes to college golf, like I think most college coaches are measured by championships, right? And to a degree, they should be. But I also think they should be measured by something you don't see as clearly at first, which is what kind of players do you produce? And he's produced some incredible players. And I think there's something to be said for that, that he should get a lot of credit for that. Yeah, exactly. I appreciate you sharing that, man. Yeah.

[00:29:52] Well, Lou Holtz, I always love this quote because I've always sort of wrestled with it and contemplated. But he once said, you can be pleased but never satisfied. Like, how has that played like in your career? I think there's a lot of wisdom to it. I think in golf or in sports or any area that you're passionate about, you always feel like you can get better and you always want to grow. You always want to learn from mistakes or successes.

[00:30:20] I remember my best round I ever played. I shot 58 when I was 16 years old at my home club. And in the same breath of kind of remembering my best round ever, I constantly will think about a six footer I missed and a parter reachable par five. And so the game is an imperfect game. And so even winning at a high level, there's always the next week or the next major or the next championship or the next level that any of us players are trying to get to.

[00:30:49] So, you know, mentor mine has long said golf makes a terrible God. If that's your whole life is built around championships, well, eventually you're going to be dissatisfied with what you're able to do.

[00:31:03] And I think if someone says they are satisfied in the sense of ultimate satisfaction, they're not being really honest because I think someone can only have that true longing quenched is in a relationship with Jesus. I think we're designed and built that way truthfully. So I think there is a healthy balance of as a Christian athlete working really hard because that glorifies God.

[00:31:31] I love the parable of the talents and thinking about like, not just God's given me a talent in golf, therefore I got to go make the most of it. But whatever gifts he's given me, whatever resources he's given me to let me be a caretaker of, I want to make the most of those, whether it's golf, whether it's being generous with time or money. They all belong to the Lord.

[00:31:54] And so I think the way we show him that we're thankful, which I'm not great at all the time, but the way we do that is by making the most of what he's given us for his glory, not our glory. Back to the original point, right? It's always returned to the truth and essentially the fundamentals. That's right. Exactly. Yeah. 2012, man, US Open at Olympic Club. Since we're talking about Paul, but Paul said something very special to you like early in the week that kind of stuck with you. Yeah.

[00:32:24] Yeah. He said on the Chippin' Green on Tuesday, he said, if they gave you second place right now, would you take it? You know, we always came up with these hypotheticals that would never happen, but it was fun to talk about. And I said, I would for sure take second right now. And I think it surprised him maybe a little bit because I think he expected me to say, no, I'm here to win. But the reality was I'd never contended in a major championship yet. I thought it'd be great experience to have that opportunity to win.

[00:32:53] And it would only help me for the rest of the season and really my career if I had that kind of a week. And come Sunday night, he said, I'm glad we didn't take second. And it got me thinking about to Paul's original desire for us that we would be able to build a lasting, meaningful career together. The second place that I said I would take was really an echo of that mindset of I'm not here just for Olympic Club. I'm here for the long haul.

[00:33:22] And I thought in that moment on the Chippin' Green that being in contention would give me the experience I needed to ultimately win the U.S. Open. But the Lord gave a great gift to me that Sunday by letting me win. I mean, you started that round four shots back and you just played your game and played a real solid round of golf. When you look back on that, what stands out? Yeah, well, Paul and I had a very interesting conversation on the range that morning. He said, are you going to leaderboard watch today?

[00:33:51] And I said, I don't know. Why are you asking? And he said, well, I just don't think you need to be looking on the front. We got to go handle our business. You know, if you need to look on the back, absolutely go ahead. I didn't think too much of it, but I asked him later on why he said that because he had never said that to me. And this was really cool on his part. He knew the first six holes at Olympic is the hardest six holes out there. You've got one, which is a par five converted into a par four. Very tough hole.

[00:34:19] Three is the longest par three on the golf course. And five and six are the hardest two back-to-back par fours on the golf course. So in Paul's mind, he's thinking he could easily be two over through six holes. And if he's looking at the leaderboard, he might be six back. And then that might cause him to try to force birdies or whatever. That was kind of the reason Paul said it. And sure enough, I'm two over through five holes, just like he thought. I got kind of an accidental birdie on number six.

[00:34:48] And then I birdied. So I birdied six, seven, eight, and ten. And that was really the US Open for me is that four out of five hole stretch. And I got to tell you, the eighth hole was the coolest story of the day, probably. The eighth hole is a par three. And the pen was back left on Sunday. So as I'm hitting balls that morning, I said, hey, what'd you do all morning? He said, I watched some golf. I said, where'd you watch? He goes, well, I sat kind of behind eight and 18. It's kind of the same area.

[00:35:17] And I said, did you learn anything? He goes, well, the weirdest thing happened on eight. I'm like, what happened? He goes, I watched four or five groups come through. You know, and it was two some Sundays. So he saw eight to ten golfers. He goes, everybody but one guy was well short of number eight. And I'm like, that is weird. With the back left pen, most guys are short and short of the green. Like, what's going on? I'm like, was there a lot of wind? He goes, there's a little bit, but not a lot. So fast forward a couple hours later, we're there. And he gives me the numbers.

[00:35:47] And I'm slightly in between five and six. But I'm thinking back pen, I'll just smash a six. If I hit it good, it'll get back there. If not, I got 30 feet. And I go, you like the six? And he kind of leans in. He whispers. He goes, well, remember what I saw this morning? Don't you think we should hit five? I'm like, well, that's a good point. So, Dr. Bell, I'm going for the middle of the green. And you know, right-handed golfer, if I'm going for the middle of the green and I pull it, it's going to go further. So I pull it right at it.

[00:36:15] And I'm telling you, this ball carries that front left bunker by a couple yards only and goes to about 30 feet short of the hole. And I made it for birdie. I get done with the round and I'm reflecting after getting the trophy and all that, heading home. I'm reflecting about the day. And I'm like, oh my goodness. If Paul didn't watch golf, I would for sure have hit six iron. It would have been short based on how well I hit the five. And I would have made par at best, maybe bogey.

[00:36:44] And if I made par, I'm going to pull off if I made bogey. I finished tied for a second. And so I've got a beautiful picture of me and my downswing on the eighth hole that day hitting five iron that I keep in my office. As just a reminder, one of a great memory, but two, like a good caddy. You work hard and you're going to have a moment like Paul had that day where because he was

[00:37:10] doing his job well, it turned out to be so beneficial for us in that final round. So that was a cool moment. That's awesome. Yeah. That is awesome, man. So was that just a flighted five? Yeah, flighted five iron. And I'm thinking it's like a, you know, I hit five iron 210 yards. I'm thinking it's a 200 yard five iron, but I pull it a little, which typically for me means it's going to go a little further than anticipated. And man, this thing barely covered the bunker. It covered the bunker by like this far. And then to make the putt on top of it was pretty cool.

[00:37:40] I love that, man. Hey, you know, question about that. I remember one time when Ricky was telling me, you know, a little intricacy of the game was if he's got a left pin and he's committed and Joe was there as well. He's kind of telling me this like 20 feet right of the pin is, is the target. Yeah. And when they step over it, just going to help it just a little bit, right? Just, just, you know, why 20 feet? Let's just make it a 15. Yeah. But even that little piece right there.

[00:38:09] Now it's, it's not a fully committed shot because now we're just trying to help a little bit. Is that one of the intricacies, man, that, that you've encountered as well? Totally. Yeah. That's spot on. I mean, we're really big on whatever target we pick. We're going to be so committed to that target. And, you know, a friend of mine said a decision means you've ruled out all of their options. And so I became a great putter. I was a pretty good putter early in my career on tour. I went through a bad stretch.

[00:38:36] I became a great putter, finished fifth, 11th and 19th in three consecutive seasons. The main difference in those seasons, why I got better was exactly what you're talking about. I never second guessed, you know, in my bad putting years, I would tell Paul after putt, I'll be like, man, I got over it. It felt like more, I played more. And it was the wrong thing to do because we had had read it correctly. So Paul encouraged me, Hey, go get over your ball. Like Jim Furyk does in the pre-shot and just feel it. And that way you'll never second guess.

[00:39:06] The result of that was I never really hit a putt again where I felt like, ah, is this enough break? Is this too much break? Because I was so committed to what I had picked. And same thing with the approach shots, same thing off the tee. If 18 at Coelho, there's the middle of the fairway. But then what I call my middle of the fairway is right center because the creek left. I don't aim at the right center and try to pull it to the middle of the fairway. I'm trying to thread the needle of the right center of the fairway.

[00:39:36] And if I happen to pull it in the middle, great. But that's not going to be in the back of my head because Paul's always told me, he goes, I'd rather you make a fully confident committed swing in the middle of the water than an uncommitted scared swing that's in the right bunker. He goes, because over time, if you go fully committed every time, you're going to win out versus trying to steer it away from trouble. Yeah, it's awesome, man.

[00:40:01] Episode 194, Dennis Morton and Katie Brown, the relationship side of wealth management. That is the idea at the heart of Morton Brown Family Wealth. Money doesn't exist separately from the rest of your life. Your career, family, relationships, goals, and values all shape the decisions you make with it. Morton Brown helps clients bring those pieces together. Check out the link, Morton Brown Family Wealth.

[00:40:29] 2018, man, that was probably the most special win you've had, players, championship. That win, from my perspective, may seem real special considering the struggles he had just that, you know, the couple of years like leading into it, man. Big time. Hoping you could just talk to us about that. Yeah, I mean, going into the 28 players, there was a lot that had happened in my life. Tough things, emotional things. They banned the belly putter January 1 of 2016.

[00:40:56] I switched November of 2014, actually. I was at the Dunlop Phoenix Tournament in Japan. And I had a good start with the short putter, but eventually I had a lot of anxiety and started putting poorly. So 2015-16, as a whole, pretty much, I finished 175 to 200 in putting. And I was hitting it pretty well during those two years. But I really started to...

[00:41:23] I was tempted to believe that if I don't figure out something about putting, I'll never win again. Like, I can't do it. So it was a professional low for me up until that point, feeling like I just didn't have what it took to be successful at a high level. And then November 2017, my dad dies to Lewy body dementia. And so it's an emotional time in our life. I hadn't won a golf tournament since the Shriners in 2013.

[00:41:50] So we come into the players, four and a half year wind drought, lost my dad six months, seven months prior. But I'm actually playing some good golf at the start of 2018, like hitting it really well. Well, the year before the players, 2017, Tim Clark encouraged me to try the claw with the arm lock. Tried the claw, 2017 players. I think I finished 16th for the week, but I putted really well. So I'd actually started gaining some confidence with the putter again.

[00:42:18] And it was like one of those weeks where everything fell into place as you would hope or dream it would be. I shot 66 in the first round. Didn't honestly think a ton of it. It was just a good, solid round. But then Friday was kind of one of those rounds of my career. I was 11 under through 16 for the day. And, you know, it's probably what you teach your students, your clients, your players.

[00:42:45] Like the best feeling or the zone that we can possibly be in is when you are enjoying what you're doing. You're embracing every challenge. The pressure doesn't even feel like pressure. It just feels like something that you're kind of pushing through calmly and you're enjoying it as you go. The chaos of Sawgrass felt calm to me. The hole felt big. And there was a laser focus. That was so much fun that Friday round.

[00:43:14] And then Saturday played tough. It was windy. We were in the last group, me and Schwartzel. It was dry. The 68 I shot Saturday, Paul says, was more satisfying for him than the Friday round. Just considering how tough it was playing. So, yeah. And then Sunday, it was a challenge to be. I was seven up going into the final round. But you know that golf course. Like anyone, any day can shoot seven or eight under. And you can shoot four or five over pretty easily. It was a tough kind of middle stretch.

[00:43:44] I was one under through seven. Bogied eight and ten. And I felt like that walk back to eleven again. You know those moments like having a great caddy. Paul gave me a pep talk that I needed. He knew I was down. Easy up and down on eight. Ten, I was in the middle of fairway. He made bogey with nine iron. He's anticipating that I'm struggling internally. And he says, look, we got eleven. We got sixteen. Two reachable par fives. Twelve's a wedge. We're in great shape.

[00:44:13] Like I needed that. Sure enough, birdied eleven. Birdied sixteen. And when I hit it on the green on seventeen, it was dry. I knew it was over. That's definitely, you said it, it's my most special win because of all the factors involved. Paul's from St. Augustine, Florida. He grew up playing sawgrass all the time. Four and a half years, like I said, windless drought. My dad dying. So it was Mother's Day. Just it felt like just this crazy emotional win.

[00:44:43] And my wife was there. Dowd was there on Sunday. So as I look back at my career, that's my most special, my favorite win for all those reasons. I love that, man. Winning feels better than having won. Yeah. You reflect on it. Like you reflect on like even that feeling of walking up on seventeen. Yeah. I mean, those feelings. I don't remember all the holes in the final round in terms of how I felt. I remember every shot.

[00:45:09] But I remember the feeling I had on seventeen once I hit it on the green because we knew the yardage that morning. So I'd hit that shot many times in my warmup. And thankfully, the wind was down off the right, which is a good wind for me on that hole, which meant I had a perfect sand wedge. Like I don't like that hole when I have to like chip a pitching wedge and involve kind of some feel. I just hit a hard sand wedge, middle of the green.

[00:45:37] And you can't completely exhale in that. Like you still have to focus. You got a hole and a half. You don't want to limp in. And I kind of did. I hit in the water on 18 on my second shot. But yeah, you quickly kind of relive the four and a half years of struggle kind of in a moment. And it makes you appreciate winning was so much more satisfying for me that Sunday than had the previous four and a half years gone pretty well.

[00:46:05] And I imagine if I win again on the PGA Tour, that next win could be probably the most meaningful just because, again, three and a half, four years of golf that has not been good at all. And kind of having my five kids and my wife with me the last few years, bearing my burdens with me. Like they're in it with me. So I imagine if God allows me to win again, then that would be a sweet moment for sure for the Simpson family. Yeah, that'd be awesome, man, because they all get to see it. It'll happen, man. Yeah.

[00:46:36] Yeah. Thank you. It'll happen, man. Thank you. Team events, man. You've played Ryder Cups, President's Cups, but then you're also assistant captain on that. I mean, there's so many different directions I go in, man. But I remember like Jim Furyk once told you, right? Like the two things you're going to remember, your wins and then your team events. So just from an overall standpoint, like how special are those, you know, even just Ryder Cups, like playing in them? They're incredible.

[00:47:05] I mean, they invoke an emotion in you that you didn't know you had until you play in them. And we feel pressure in the game in any tournament, some more than others. But then you get to a Ryder Cup or a President's Cup and it's a whole new feeling of you feel excitement you've never felt. You feel responsibility you've never felt. You know, we're an individual sport. We're only really worried about what we're shooting. But all of a sudden you got a partner now, you got a team and you got a country that's behind you.

[00:47:33] And the flag means something to all of us. You know, we want to win for many different people and you don't really know until you experience it. And so I was eyes wide open in Australia, 2011. And I had Bubba Watson as a partner. And man, we had such a great week together. He was a perfect partner for me, especially my first team event because he was a follower of Christ. He was fun to be with. He was like, I didn't feel pressure from him.

[00:48:01] He's the best player out of the rough we had at the time. He's a great lag putter. So I didn't have to worry about three footers all day. Man, we won our first three matches, lost our fourth. So we had a great week on the golf course. But you know, you played great at Madonna too, right? Yeah, we played great at Madonna. I think we were two and one. You get your wife, you get to hang with them all week. They're with you the whole way. They're inside the ropes. You know, you got captains and vice captains who would do anything for you as a player.

[00:48:30] And now to have that role as a vice captain is such an honor. And Davis Love, Tiger actually called me first. Then Davis called me and asked me to help out at Quail Hollow at 2022 President's Cup. And I kind of went in with the mindset, like, be quiet, be humble, learn. These guys have done it a million times. Learn as much as you can. These are heroes of mine in the game of golf. Davis, Stricker, Freddie, Zach Johnson. These guys are amazing.

[00:49:00] So learned a ton from them. And then when Keegan asked me, he asked me in July of 24, would I help him at the Ryder Cup? And man, it was such an honor because Keegan and I kind of started on tour a year apart. And I've always loved Keegan. And the Ryder Cup, they're both incredible. Ryder Cup's a little different animal in that there's rivalry there that's built in. There's one extra vice captain.

[00:49:29] And, you know, there's just as much emotion goes in the Presence Cup. Maybe a little bit more goes in the Ryder Cup just with the history. But they're both just incredible events. Yeah. So going into this year's Presence Cup, I'm so excited. I'm thankful. I feel honored. Brant asked me. And man, I'm going alongside vice captains that I know so well. We got a big challenge ahead of us. We got a lot of work to do to get this team ready. But I don't have to tell these guys anything. They're the best players in the world.

[00:49:58] We just want to position them in the best possible way for them to have success in Medina. Talking about that coming up in a second, I want to ask you about Beth Page from last year and then on Sunday. Because even though it's a little bit short, it showed the fight and the resolve, the resiliency, you know, because it was something special. It was definitely happening there. What stuck out to you about that one?

[00:50:23] Well, I told somebody recently, I think the real spirit of the American team is most defined by Sunday at the Ryder Cup at Beth Page. I think the days of Europe having more camaraderie than the Americans is over. I think they would even admit to that in that our guys, a lot of them live in South Florida. They travel together. They stay together at tournaments. They play practice rounds together. Our guys are close.

[00:50:49] And the whole ego thing, I think, is a thing of the past for the American team. It was the most tight-knit, humble group of guys I've been a part of at Beth Page. And yeah, we got our butts kicked Friday and Saturday. But I think that's also, I kind of complained to a media official. I said, man, y'all create all these bad stories. Like, why not highlight the incredible golf that Europe's played these last couple days?

[00:51:18] Like, they've made so many putts. Like, I'm out there watching it. You want to applaud it as a spectator because you're like, that's incredible golf. Like, that's a positive message too, not all this negative stuff. So, I was kind of going off on that. But at the end of the day, they played better. They made more putts. But Sunday, we responded in a way that, man, I can't tell you how proud I was of Cameron Young. And I was out with Justin Thomas in the beginning part of his round.

[00:51:47] I'm witnessing these guys make putt after putt and hit shot after shot. And it gave us life for a couple hours there where we thought we might be pulling off something that would be remembered forever in the game of golf. And they almost did it. But I think we got to take that kind of spirit and fight onto this year's President's Cup and onto the Ryder Cup at Adair Manor. Because every year seems like a huge challenge to win. But I know we're up for it.

[00:52:13] With the President's Cup, and again, from my standpoint, outsider. And I know you don't want to take anything for granted. Like, I get that, right? An overconfidence man can really quickly bite you. But it always seems that U.S. has just a little bit more confidence when it comes to President's Cup. It just seems to be a different level there. And I'm not sure if that's just for me or... No, I think that's probably true. But I think it's actually, it kind of makes sense to me.

[00:52:41] Naturally, if you come in as the favorite year after year, you're probably going to start believing it in a good way. Like we are at President's Cup, we're always favored. Ryder Cup, it seems like they've kicked our butt a lot of years, the last couple of decades. And so I do think they have more confidence in that event than we do. I think the idea of us or them being better on paper really goes out the window when it comes to the competition.

[00:53:09] Because you see guys play golf in team events unlike any other event throughout the year. I remember being at the President's Cup of Quahala. And I'm with Sam Burns and Scotty Scheffler during their two best ball matches. And they were 19 under for two matches. They were 9 under and lost and 10 under and tied. And you're like, okay, they both played incredible golf. And they got half a point out of it in two days.

[00:53:38] So I think guys, their games are elevated in those intense moments of pressure more so than in a regular tournament. I think for the Ryder Cup, the thing we've got to nail into the brains of these guys is how good they are. They have what it takes. They have chemistry. It's already there. It's like we just need to get them to believe it and kind of take hold of it versus it being something that the American team doesn't have yet. Like we have it.

[00:54:08] Can we just hold on to it and grab hold of it and put it into play and kind of let it happen versus you've probably talked to your players about don't force it. Like let it let it happen. It's there. Just kind of walk into it. So I'm excited for whether I'm a part of a day or manner or not. I'm excited to see if we can take that momentum from Sunday and apply it that week. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, man, I've really enjoyed this conversation.

[00:54:38] I do have one more question. I should have prefaced this in the beginning. But what question should I be asking that I'm not asking, man? Man, that's a great question in and of itself. I think the most fascinating topic of our day is Scotty Scheffler. And here's why I was talking about it yesterday. In all sports, you feel like there'll never be another, right? There'll never be another Michael. There'll never be another Wayne Gretzky. You name it. Barry Bonds. I said it about Tiger.

[00:55:06] And I'm still like, well, Scotty's got a long way to go. But I think it's so fun. If you're a golf fan and probably all your listeners are golf fans, like what we're witnessing right now is truly remarkable. I feel blessed that I got to play with Tiger, play under him as captain in Australia, but really learn from him and see his career. Now Scotty's doing what Tiger did in so many ways. And even me as a 41-year-old, 20-year career, I'm learning from Scotty.

[00:55:33] I'm watching him play Sunday at the St. Jude. I'm seeing how he's thinking about decisions on the golf course. But we are witnessing, I think, a once-in-a-generation type of talent and player. So he's inspired me. Like, I want to learn enough from Scotty to go apply it in my game. And although he's young, he's got a lot of time ahead of him. But we're witnessing history, I think, right now.

[00:55:59] And yeah, I can't wait to have another chance to play against him and try to beat him. But it's going to be a little while, I think. Yeah. Well, one of the things, you know, especially in the 2000s, when it kind of gets thrown out there that nice guys finish last. And I would always point to Webb Simpson. I said, well, Webb Simpson's a U.S. Open champion. And I said, there's proof of it. But the part about Scotty that nice guys and his faith is first and foremost.

[00:56:29] And he talks about that. When I talk to younger players, too, man, they're always bringing that up. I think that's even the bigger message, right? I mean, the platform he has. And just being able to share that faith and be open about it. And the fears and the struggles and the successes he comes with. That's what really, like, that's what I love about it. Yeah, for sure. I mean, I've used him as an example. He loves the Lord. He loves his wife, his kids. And he's a fierce competitor.

[00:56:56] And sure, as competitors, we get too into it than we would like. But he does a great job of what kind of life balance of what matters and treating his job with great care and glorifying God as he goes about competing to the highest ability he has and leaving it all on the golf course. And I think, you know, I heard him say one time that he loves Thursday through Sunday because his prep work is done. And he feels this peace that he's done everything he can do.

[00:57:24] Now he just he goes and trusts the results are going to be what they're going to be. And I love that mentality. Like, you go hard after the prep and the Monday through Wednesday at a tour event. And then you relax a little Thursday through Sunday. You're still competing hard. But, like, you've done everything you can do to position yourself to have the best week possible. And that's a great place to be as a golfer. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, man, I really enjoyed this, bro. Thanks so much. Yeah, me too. Thanks for having me on.

[00:57:55] Thanks for listening to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. To find out more about Dr. Rob, visit his website at drrobbell.com or follow him on Twitter at Dr. Rob Bell. And subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of Mental Toughness as soon as it's available. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.