Ep. 196 - Mike Bisaro - Mental Toughness In Wealth Management

[00:00:09] Welcome to Mental Toughness Podcast with Dr. Rob Bell. Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes, executives, and expert coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hinge moment. Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:37] You can't just retire from something. You have to retire to something. And it's not, it doesn't have to be another job, but it has to continue to drive you forward. It has to continue to provide purpose. It has to continue to provide social connection, whatever that may be. And so understanding what that is for you, which is different for every person, and will change even for you over time.

[00:01:06] But really understanding what that is, is an essential part of the retirement process. I'm 22 years old, getting ready to come out of school. You know, I didn't have any money. I didn't, I'm like, who's going to listen to me about money? And he said something that really hit home. And it's something that I still talk about a lot, even with, with people that I, you know, discuss coming into the industry.

[00:01:33] He said, that's not what this is about. He says, this business is about building and maintaining relationships, being comfortable, speaking with people. On the Mental Toughness Podcast, today's guest is president and CEO of Straight Line, independent wealth management firm serving individuals, families, businesses, and retirement plans. Joined the firm in 2004, became owner in 2020.

[00:01:59] He spent more than two decades advising clients, retirement planning, investing, fiduciary responsibility. He was valedictorian at New Mexico State University, serves on the advisory board for Registered Investment Advisory Institute, has been recognized five-star wealth manager 13 times, husband of Elizabeth and father of two. Excited for this conversation. Please welcome Mike Basaro. Mike, man, thanks for taking the time, man, and joining us.

[00:02:26] Thank you, Rob. I'm happy to be here. Appreciate the invitation. We got to meet in Nashville at a conference and right away we were talking about golf. And I mean, I know golf's been a huge part of your life, but start us in that. In fact, I mean, you started the PGM program at New Mexico State University, man. I did. Yes. I was a professional golf management student coming out of high school. And at the time, there were only four professional golf management programs in the country.

[00:02:56] There are more now. But I was, I had the opportunity to go to New Mexico State. And it was kind of a transformational thing for me. I had never really been away from home and I'm from Michigan, still live in Michigan. But going 1800 miles away and, and living in a completely different setting and different climate. The climate was part of the reason that drew me down there. Full disclosure.

[00:03:25] But no, I loved it there and ended up, I did not, did not finish in that program. But that, that deal was under the marketing major at New Mexico State. So I was in it for about three years. Got out of that program after about three, finished the marketing major and added finance as a second major and actually picked up a minor in political theory along the way. So loved it down there.

[00:03:52] Loved Las Cruces and stayed down there even after I got out of that program. Hmm. It's awesome. How important was golf to you growing up? Enormously important. And actually continues to be and really was the pathway to me being an advisor and even to the role that I'm in now.

[00:04:13] I was fortunate enough to grow up with the availability of, of the game around me and the, the, the opportunity to play. And I played quite a bit and played in a lot of tournaments and things when I was a kid. um, and you know, unknowingly it set me on what became a really good path to being an advisor. And I really, I had never thought about it that way.

[00:04:39] Um, but one of the things that, that golf did for me was it put me around a lot of people that were older than me. Uh, you know, I, I, from the time I was 12, 13, 14 years old, it was very normal for me to be playing with people who were, you know, in their thirties and forties and fifties and beyond. A lot of them were friends of my parents who I had grown up with and I had, you know, it was just normal to me. I was always around people that were older.

[00:05:09] So, um, of course we had, you know, we had plenty of friends my age too. Um, so a lot of friends and camaraderie and relationships built from that, that are still part of my life to this day. Um, but golf without question brought me to being an advisor. So, um, the way that, the way that that really came about was when I was getting ready, basically we're getting ready to graduate.

[00:05:34] Um, I had a couple of different opportunities in the, uh, you know, in the kind of the more traditional finance world, um, corporate finance and that type of area. And, um, a guy that I knew, uh, didn't know him extremely well, but I had known and played golf with, you know, around home came up to my parents. I was at school, but he came up to my parents and said that he was interested in talking to me about working with him. He was an advisor.

[00:06:03] He was moving into a management role and he was looking for someone to, uh, to work with his clients. And so we got in touch. And next time I was home, we started talking about it. And I said, uh, he, he kind of brought up this idea. And the first thing I said was, you know, I'm 22 years old, getting ready to come out of school. I'm, you know, I didn't have any money. I didn't, I was like, who's going to listen to me about money. And he said something that, that really hit home.

[00:06:32] And it's something that I still talk about a lot, even with, with people that I, you know, discuss coming into the industry. He said, that's not what this is about. He says, this business is about building and maintaining relationships, being comfortable, um, speaking with people. And especially when you're 22, it's about speaking with people who are older than you. Right. And most of the clients and the folks that you work with are, are, you know, they're, they're, they're working there.

[00:06:59] They're thirties, forties, fifties, retired, whatever it might be. Um, and he said, and I've, I've watched you do that since you were a little kid, including with me, it's his words. And, and he says, and that's very natural to you. And honestly, I think that might've been the first time that I'd ever really even thought about it. Um, because it was just so normal. So, um, so I kind of chewed on my options a little bit.

[00:07:24] And, uh, I knew that I knew something about myself at that time, uh, that, that golf also had taught me that I really enjoyed people. I liked being around people. I was always curious about people. I liked hearing their stories. Um, you know, people are remarkably, most people are remarkably open and willing to share their stories if you ask them questions.

[00:07:51] And, and so I really liked that. I thought, you know, I just saw all this knowledge and wisdom around me. And, and I've always just been really curious about people. So I knew that I was probably not going to be real happy staring at a spreadsheet for 12 years in a traditional finance role. And so the more I thought about it, the more that it felt like a natural thing for me. And that's ultimately what led me into the industry. So, um, that's, that's how it came about. I love that, Mike.

[00:08:21] I love golf, uh, especially being the great connector, man. And again, you know, I've both have spoken before, but many opportunities that golf around the golf meeting, somebody, um, can provide. And it's awesome. Like stay, stay on that theme. For instance, when it comes to hiring and you and I have spoke about this as well, but I've always said some of the best hires are farmers. Yeah. Uh, team managers.

[00:08:46] So those that have been on a team because they don't get the pats on the back and they're hard workers and they are detail oriented. And then Evan scholars. Yeah. And we talk about the grind and mentality you have to have there. And then it connected with golf on that. I was hoping you could just share a little insight into that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I, I love caddies. Let's put it that way. Let's make it real easy.

[00:09:11] Um, and, and, you know, I was thinking about it that, that, uh, if you're around the golf world, um, especially in the way that you are and at the highest level, um, you know, what, what caddies do for players. And, you know, it kind of struck me that there's some similarities to a caddy and what an advisor does for a client.

[00:09:35] Um, so the, the, the Evan scholar program is something that, um, for anyone familiar with it, it's, it's a very rigorous program. Um, it's a very selective program, um, designed for caddies to, uh, to put kids through school. It's an amazing program. If you, if you, if you're not familiar with it, I encourage you to, to, to look into it.

[00:09:57] Um, but it has, it has a, an amazing, uh, amazingly difficult, um, application process. There's, you know, there's a lot of interviews for it. Um, you know, you have to present as, and to be clear, I'm not, I was not an Evan scholar, uh, but I've been around that program, um, and very familiar with it since I was a kid. So, um, so a couple of people that we've hired, um, have come from that program.

[00:10:26] And I mean, it's almost like a cheat code for us because knowing what they had to do to, to apply for that, you cannot bluff your way through that program. Um, and, and so, but it also means that they've been around people that they've been, you know, they've had to speak with people and so much, and I know we'll talk about this more, but so much about our business is just about communication and building relationships. Excuse me.

[00:10:51] Um, and so, uh, yeah, I think that that is, that is something that I've used, um, partly of course, because of my own experience and the realization that I've had about, you know, the, the, the training that it did for me, for me. From a slightly different angle. Um, but yes, we, we, uh, we love, we love speaking with caddies. Yeah. It's awesome, man. Straight line.

[00:11:16] So you joined in 2004, but a hinge moment of, of succession took place and, and, and owning the company specifically along with your wife, Elizabeth and February 26th, 2020. I was hoping you could pick us up from there. Yeah, that was a, that was a rather noteworthy day in, in, in our life. Um, so the, uh, yes, the transition of the business. Um, I, I was at that, that original firm for about two and a half years. That was what used to be Wachovia Securities.

[00:11:47] Um, and I knew that it was time to, uh, it was, it was time to transition and 2004, as you mentioned, I came to straight line as an advisor. I've been here ever since, but obviously, as you said in different roles and, um, you know, my role evolved to, I've always been an advisor, but I've also, then I was really leading the advisory team. Um, but the opportunity did come up for succession from our founders.

[00:12:16] Um, and there was an early attempt and some early discussions going back to really 2015, 2016 didn't work for a variety of reasons. There were a couple of outside inquiries from other firms that didn't work for a variety of reasons. And, um, we got real serious. I, I definitely wanted to take on that role and, and, uh, Elizabeth as well. And so we got serious about it in really 2018.

[00:12:45] It took two years to get it, to get it done for a variety of reasons. Um, way more than we would ever have time to go into today. Um, but we, we worked and worked and worked and worked and worked and, and fought through a lot of difficulties. You know, technical difficulties and just operational difficulties. And, and, and, and, you know, it's a complicated thing.

[00:13:09] Um, so after two years of work, we got everything done and we had all of our plans of everything that we were going to do on day one. And day one was February 26th of 2020, which happens to be Elizabeth's birthday, just to make it easy to. Wonderful. Yes. Um, she told me that I could say that as long as I didn't say the year, by the way.

[00:13:30] Uh, but yes, February 26th, 2020, if everybody remembers what the world looked like then, or more specifically about, oh, two or three weeks later. Um, so basically by the time that we had all the signed paperwork back to everybody, we were all locked in our basement markets down 30%. Um, and we're trying to figure out if the world is still spinning.

[00:13:55] And, and, and, you know, we, there were a lot of different emotions going on during that time. There was a lot of questions and, and, uh, you know, did we do the right thing? Did we, you know, have we done this at the absolute worst possible time? And, you know, and Elizabeth, uh, especially she was, she was newer to, you know, she was not working with the company at that time.

[00:14:23] She was kind of newer to the industry, excuse me. Um, and we were all in, right. It was one of those, it was an all in moment. We, we, there was no going back. Um, but you know, I never really, there were uncertain times, but I would, I never really felt scared during that time. I, I really, I believed that things were going to come back. I wouldn't have guessed as most of us wouldn't.

[00:14:50] Um, I wouldn't have guessed how fast it was going to happen from the market standpoint, of course. Um, and, and, you know, it, it taught us a lot too, you know, it taught us to be patient. You know, a lot of the things that we expected to do on day one and all of the things that we were certain we needed to change.

[00:15:10] I kind of laugh looking back on it now because had we done it the way that we thought we needed to, um, I'm not saying it would have been a disaster, but I know that we would have had to redo a significant portion of it because, you know, we went into that time. You know, I had been here more than 15 years at that point. I knew there was a lot of stuff that I knew about the company. I knew there was a lot of stuff that I still needed to learn about the company.

[00:15:37] Um, I am, I was amazed. I am still amazed at how much there really is in our industry to learn, um, that I, that I have become more aware of over time. Um, so, so, you know, the, the first year was mostly just talking as much as we possibly could, um, to as many people as we possibly could.

[00:16:04] And, you know, walking around the basement, just doing laps of on the, while I was on the phone and, and, you know, you, you'd start the day with X number of calls to make. And, and you'd get done, you, you, you talk to people all day long. And at the end of the day, you had more, you, you were further behind in some ways. There are more people to talk to than when you started, but you know, we learned how to communicate in different ways.

[00:16:30] The way that you and I are communicating now was not something that was extremely familiar to all of us at that time. Um, but you know, we learned about, you know, we also learned about how, how your definition of risk can change quite quickly. Um, and so, you know, we ended up moving later that year and we moved in September of 2020. And my parents thought we were nuts and it was like, well, you guys haven't done enough.

[00:16:58] And, but at that point it's like, you know what, what's one more thing? It's okay. We're let's, we're just going to get it done and keep moving. Um, so, but it was about, you know, learning to communicate with your team differently, learning to communicate with, with the folks that, that, uh, we work with differently.

[00:17:15] And, um, uh, but, but yeah, that was, that was definitely, um, that was definitely a hinge moment that ended up going in very different ways than we thought that that year ended up very close to where we had predicted from a financial perspective. But the pattern that was predicted didn't quite match any of our projections. Um, but you know, we just said, okay, we're, what are we, what, what are our options here? Right. And our options were go forward.

[00:17:44] That, that was the only option. And so, so that's what we did. Um, and, and, uh, yeah, and in, and in doing so we learned a lot about what we really needed to do. And, and it's, it's really changed our evolution since then. Mike, you, you mentioned about risk. Cause I've always felt like when people talk about risk tolerance, I've always felt that was a bit shaded because we're really talking about loss tolerance, not risk tolerance, but loss tolerance. But you mentioned risk, like talk to us about that specifically.

[00:18:14] And then how did, how did that relationship with risk, you know, change just even over that experience and over time? Yeah. I mean, you're right about, you're right about risk and it's really loss. I always joke about that when people talk about it and our, our industry has kind of co-opted the word volatility to not talk about losses. Right.

[00:18:37] And I always laugh when I hear that and I can say it myself, but I always, I always check myself when I say it because it's like nobody cares about volatility when it's going up. Right. Volatility is just, we've taken over that word so we don't have to say losses. So let's just say it. Um, but yeah, but risk, um, you know, there, there's so many things I think in our lives that, that, that influence how we, we look at risk and the possibility of loss.

[00:19:05] Um, and, and, and, you know, I tend to be a pretty cautious person in most ways. And I like to, you know, have a lot of information before I make decisions, sometimes maybe more than I should. Um, but when, when you commit to the type of change that we made, um, you know, it, it redefines risk. It redefined it for us.

[00:19:33] Um, and to the point where, where you, you know, you, you have to just continue on, you have to move forward. And it's not that you are, it's not that you're unaware of the negative sides. It's not that you are pushing them off. I think you have to be aware of what they can be to make good decisions along the way.

[00:19:52] But, um, uh, but you know, you, you, we, we were in a position where we felt we had really no other alternative that plus I, you know, I think that if you do something like this, um, you, you don't consider something like this unless you're an optimistic person. Um, and I, and you know, I think that's something that I have always been. So, so, you know, I, I believed that it had come back.

[00:20:19] I had been in the industry long enough to have seen a few downturns, um, and, and to work our, you know, we worked our way through them. Um, I started in 2002 during what was still the, really the, the downturn of that.com, you know, bubble. Um, and then we went through 2008 and a couple of little ones in between.

[00:20:40] And every time you go through one of these things, and I tell this to advisors, once you go through a little bit of these things and you end up with a little bit of this color on the side of your head, um, you, you, you just don't react to things in the same way. And that's good. It makes you a better advisor. And so to, to me, it was just kind of the next thing. All electrolyte and hydration mixes and drinks are not created equal. I mean, check the ingredients.

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[00:22:06] Um, with your leadership, like what have you learned about building a successful, you know, resourceful, resilient team, you know, performing under pressure? Share with us some, some of those things you've learned. Yes. Um, and, and that transition that you mentioned, um, which is not a full transition as I, you know, I'm, I'm still an advisor, but, um, that transition is, is difficult. And I knew, I knew it would be, I knew years before we got the deal done that that was going to be the, probably the biggest challenge for me.

[00:22:35] And it is, and it's, and remains. Um, but there's the, the leadership role, um, is really fun in a lot of ways. I, I really enjoy it. And the team building part. Um, I mean, it's an extension of, of what I said earlier about why I think, you know, I've, I've really liked this business because it's a people business.

[00:22:58] Um, and, and just like with, just like with our clients, you know, when we're talking about building a team, you know, you're building people, building a team of people that you like. It's building people or teams sounds simple. Um, but, but it's not always, I mean, and sometimes, you know, you, you, you, you make decisions based on who you think is best for a role.

[00:23:21] Um, and maybe you just don't quite, you don't click with them well, but, but I know that, um, you know, they're, they're, they're really good technically in that role, but it just doesn't work quite the same way. Um, so, so that's one of the criteria. Um, I think that it has been very important to hire people and to work with people that have different skill sets. Um, Elizabeth is a great example, you know, her, her skill set. I think her, her skill set.

[00:23:51] She'd be the first to tell you she's our controller. She handles a lot of, um, the, the details and all of the financial side. Um, nothing makes that girl happier than, than a spreadsheet that balances to the penny at the end of the month. Um, that's not my first love. Uh, and, and, you know, and she would say that her first love is not, you know, not working with clients and speaking directly.

[00:24:17] I think she's better at it than she gives herself credit for, but, um, but, but that's really not where she, where she excels. Um, so, and then, um, and, and so there, there are plenty of examples, uh, you know, in, in the firm and also, um, where we've been able to really expand is by hiring people who know more than us in certain areas too.

[00:24:40] Um, and, um, uh, that there, there, there's no better example of that than, um, Rob Rickey, who joined us three years ago, almost to the day. Officially he was with us as a consultant for a short time. Um, but Rob brings an industry knowledge that is in my opinion, maybe unmatched in terms of the way that our industry works, the way that some of our specialties work.

[00:25:04] Um, and, and the, uh, you know, the technical knowledge, the data, um, he's a CFP also, so he brings that element as well. But, um, yeah, being able, being able to, to hire people and, and, uh, you know, that, that compliment each other, um, it has been essential. Um, and it's something that we, that, that guides everything that we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. Hiring also seems to seem to be the best type of compliance as well.

[00:25:34] Oh yeah. Yeah. You, you solve a lot of your problems before they, before they happen. Yeah. That's, I've never heard that exact phrase, but that's a really good phrase. Hiring. Mike, you can, you can take it, man. Run with it, man. Thank you. Yeah. I may, I may have to borrow that one permanently. You borrow, give me, give me credit, but share, we'll share the royalties. It's, it's a fab, that's a fabulous line. Uh, though, yeah, we, Elizabeth used to, um, she's owned rental properties in the past and

[00:26:04] she's, she always used to say that we, she solved most of her tenant problems in, uh, in the application process. That's right. It's a very similar thing. So, um, yeah, I, I, I appreciate that line. Um, like self-improvement, but, but working on yourself, um, picking the areas that I know I can get better here, you know, whether it's mentally, emotionally. Physically, spiritually, um, talk to us about that and, and, and what your journey has, has

[00:26:34] been on it in terms of that piece. Yeah. I love this question because, um, it's something that, that I've really been focusing on a lot. Um, in the, I would say in the last year or so, I've become much more aware of these things, um, physically too. And, and so, um, you know, I, I have participated in a lot of, uh, a lot of things and I, I, I don't read as much as I'd like to, but I, I really enjoy it.

[00:27:01] And I love, and I've been, been more conscious about adding that into my routine in the last year or so, especially. Um, but I've also kind of opened myself up here for, uh, for other types of learning and, uh, coaching, um, and with a couple of different programs. Um, but also physically, um, I had, I've been in a little bit of a health journey over the last year.

[00:27:29] Um, nothing bad and nothing, nothing overly dramatic. Mostly it was just inattention, um, and, and simplicity, um, and momentum. Um, and just, you know, I, I was just making dumb decisions, easy decisions with food and a lot of other things. And, and, um, I had a couple of things that popped up, nothing again, nothing serious, but enough to kind of get my attention.

[00:27:56] And, um, about, about a year ago I said, okay, enough. Um, and, uh, you know, I knew I wasn't being healthy and, um, and I knew it was affecting me. I knew I could feel that it was affecting, I knew it was affecting my body, but I also knew it was affecting my, my mind. I could tell that it just, I didn't feel like I was running at the right speed and, and at the capacity that I knew I needed.

[00:28:24] And the, when I was honest with myself about it, I was putting in garbage. And so putting in garbage and not sleeping and, you know, doing all this stuff wrong. Well, you're probably going to get garbage out and, you know, maybe it's an age thing. I don't, you know, I, I, I know age is a relative term and I, I, I don't feel that I'm old, but I'm also not young enough to ignore this stuff anymore.

[00:28:48] And so, um, so I, I dedicated myself to it. I started working with a nutritionist. I learned about my own system and learned about, you know, what foods work for me and what foods don't, um, you know, made some pretty significant changes. I also have, you know, I, I, the cholesterol and all these other things were really the wake up call and I don't have good health or good hit family history on either side of my family with that stuff.

[00:29:16] Um, and so some numbers came back that got my attention. Um, so I, I've made some very significant changes, um, lost a good amount of weight. The, the numbers changed dramatically. Um, but, but I knew that I knew that it was part of, um, you know, it's part of what I wanted to do for my family. It's part of what I wanted to do for myself. Um, and, and I, I knew I needed to take it more seriously.

[00:29:44] Um, so, so that combined with learning and, you know, even the, the, you know, the spiritual side and all of those things, which, you know, you just, you, you, you drift away from some of these routines sometime. Um, and, and like a lot of people, I drifted away when COVID happened. I, you know, you just, you just made choices that were easy in some cases. And that's what really made me mad about this whole journey, honestly, because I wasn't doing things that I loved.

[00:30:13] I was just doing things that were easy. And, and I said, this is stupid. I don't know if I'm, if I'm going to do this, I, if I'm going to do this just because it's easy, I can do that because it's easy. I just have to be a little more intentional about it. So, um, yeah, I think it all, it all goes together. And, and I mean, and, and it's, you know, it's, I think it's a signal too. It's a signal to the, the, the outside world, to your family, that you're serious about it. And, and I had let it go for too long.

[00:30:42] So anyway, um, that's, that's been, uh, that's been a lot of my, uh, my last year. No, I appreciate you sharing that. Like there's a lot of good things in there, man. Like, you know, Rome wasn't built in a day, but it wasn't destroyed in a day either. Right. Like it's that, that slow fade, right? It's that drift that takes place. And, and, you know, we talk about ROI, but this is more ROC, right? The return on choice. And, you know, following up on that line that you talked about, um, you know, doing what is easy.

[00:31:11] And I would say simple doesn't mean it's easy, but on the wealth management side, you had a great line and you said the easiest thing to do financially is the hardest thing to do mentally. That speaks to the emotional side of the wealth management, but I'm hoping I'm teeing up that, that right for you, man, or you can run with it. Absolutely. Yes. So this is something that, that I say a lot. I say it a lot in individual meetings with people.

[00:31:37] I say it a lot in, in our presentations and it's one of the eternal conundrums. I think about investing, um, because, uh, you know, so much of what we do as advisors, we are teachers. We are therapists with all due respect to, to licensed therapists. Uh, but not just coach man. I don't do the therapy, you know, but we, we are make no mistake as you're, you're an advisor.

[00:32:07] You're, you're dealing with some, some pretty heavy things with people in a lot of cases. Um, but you know, a lot of what we do is I think preventing people from making bad decisions or, or maybe, maybe a better way to say that is emotional decisions because emotional decisions. We all know, you know, our brain knows that that's, that's not the right way to do it. And, um, but, but in the moment it's hard to do, right?

[00:32:35] So, so that line that you said that I do use all the time, um, it's true with investing, right? The easiest time to buy something is after it's been going up for a really long time. The easiest time to sell something is after it's been going down for a really long time. And, and, you know, again, I can show this in a classroom setting.

[00:33:00] I can put a chart behind me and show these patterns and show how they repeat time and time again. And everybody's going to nod, right? And everybody says, oh yeah, yeah. The worst time to sell would have been, you know, right here at the end of 2008, beginning of 2009. Of course, that's the right time. I would never sell then. Well, guess what? But when that time happens, we don't know that those are the, the, I don't like using words like bottoms, but there was the bottom of that cycle, but we don't know when that's going to happen.

[00:33:30] Nobody knows when that's going to happen. And when you're in that mode, you know, I remember those days very well, January, February of, of 2008. Those were scary times. I mean, and it became in some ways scarier after the fact when some of the postmortem hit and you really learned about how close things were in the financial system was to, to something really, really bad that may not have been completely fixable.

[00:33:59] You know, it was a scary time. And so, you know, we had people that were calling right at those moments. So, yeah, but, you know, making good decisions and good long-term decisions goes against, in many ways, goes against the things that are most comfortable for our brains. So, so guiding people through that process is maybe the most important investment-related function of an advisor, in my opinion.

[00:34:29] So, yeah. I love that line by Warren Buffett. I use this one a lot, but like everyone's a long-term investor until their stocks go down. Right. Yeah, exactly. Right. Yeah. It's, it's, I mean, it's, it's, it's become, it's become cliche almost because, but these cliches exist because they, because they're real, you know, the stocks are the only things that people in the United States don't buy on sale. Right. Right. Right.

[00:34:57] And, and there, there's a whole bunch of other quotes that we can, we can apply to these things, but he's absolutely right. And you're, you're, you're me talking about Warren Buffett being right. It kind of goes without saying. But again, the, the, the point is the same and there's a million different ways to say it, but yeah, it's, it is, it is helping people through the, the decision-making process that doesn't feel natural. Yeah.

[00:35:27] You know, you're from, I mean, in the retirement space and you guys have, uh, and really help individuals out through that. And you specialize in that, but helping people financially retire, uh, or prepare for, for retirement and helping them financially. What's one of those pieces that people are least prepared for psychologically when, when they finally get there? Yeah.

[00:35:52] Um, this is something we talk about a lot, um, because so much of retirement planning, traditional retirement planning is focused just on numbers and math and magic numbers and stuff like that. Um, it is absolutely the emotional side. It's the change. Uh, I think the, the best answer is it's the change, uh, of their routines. It's the change of their, their social connections, which come with work for many people.

[00:36:20] Um, and you know, that, that emotional side of, of what we do. Um, and I don't mean what we do as advisors. I mean, what we do as human beings, right? Um, and then another, another line from one of our other advisors from Mike Rice, who, uh, who has worked with us now for many years. And he, he's actually, he was a retiree from Michigan state university who then became an advisor with us. And he always says, you can't just retire from something.

[00:36:49] You have to retire to something. And it's not, it doesn't have to be another job, but it has to continue to drive you forward. It has to continue to provide purpose. It has to continue to provide social connection, whatever that may be. Um, and so understanding what that is for you, which is different for every person and will change even for you over time.

[00:37:16] Um, but, but really understanding what that is, um, is, is an essential part of, of the retirement process. And, you know, the people that I always worry about the most, most of the time, but not in this is in a universal statement, but most of the people that I have found where that don't do well in retirement, um, are the people who, while they were working, when you ask them when

[00:37:44] they're going to retire, they give you their answer in years, months. And days, and sometimes hours and minutes, right? Yeah. Those now, not everyone who says it that way is unsuccessful in retirement, but those are the ones that I tend to worry about the most because those people usually are just focused on the exit, right? I gotta be done. I can't take this anymore.

[00:38:09] I can be done on August 3rd of 2028. And that's the day that I'm going and that's all I care about. And that's where we spend the most time saying, okay, well, what happens on August 4th of 2028? Um, because you have to be looking beyond just that transition point, um, or, or people get lost. And the funniest part is the people who make the most noise about those end dates are often

[00:38:39] the ones that, and you hear about this, they're often the ones that three months go by five months, six months, a year, whatever. And then they, what do they do? They go back to work. Right. And that's okay. There's nothing wrong with that, but you know, they come back. Oh, I thought you were never coming back. Oh, what's going on? Well, you know, they, they, they weren't, they weren't as ready for it as they thought they were going to be. So retirement, um, you know, retirement is, I think a lot of people think that there's one

[00:39:07] kind of stereotypical, uh, definition of it. Um, and, and it's not, there's not one. And, and if you don't have one, that's okay. Um, we've taken in many cases to calling it preferment rather, rather than retirement, which is another word that we're bought. We permanently borrowed. Uh, but preferment is kind of a cool way to look at it because very cool. You know, it doesn't necessarily need to be the end of something. It's just a transition to something else. So that's fascinating to me.

[00:39:38] So let's just go on that part of event. I've got, I've got two years, eight months, so many days, and then we're going to retire. So on one hand, to me, it seems like, because we're talking about their identity and you got to be moving towards something as well as moving away from something. It seems to me like these individuals, like they know when that date's going to come, but they're not even looking past the finish line. They're not looking at, Hey, what's another mountain? And we're going to be able to climb. It's just the end date and they're just not looking past it.

[00:40:07] That's fascinating to me. Yeah. I would see these individuals as the ones of like, all right, man, you have time to prepare. You have time to explore a new why a new identity piece, but they just don't look past that. Some people can't, you know, some people can just, just, and then again, we, they were capable of it, but a lot of times they just haven't thought about it. You know, they're just, they're just too focused on one side.

[00:40:31] Um, so question on that, Mike, how does that relate then to, let's just say the industry as a whole and financial advisors, right? I mean, there's the, well, I'll just kind of let you take that. Like, how, how do you think that applies in financial advisors that just hang on or they just have a slow exit? But I mean, there's a lot of different ways, but how do you see that specifically then maybe even applying in the industry?

[00:40:57] You mean, you mean like for advisors themselves that, that as they're transitioning? Yeah. Ooh, man. Um, uh, you know, this is something I could probably go on for a very long time, but I don't think, honestly, I don't think it's that different. Right. I mean, it's, you know, advisors, advisors, we kind of laugh about it sometimes because many advisors never really retire. Right. It becomes part of who you are.

[00:41:26] And even though you're, you're always, uh, and again, that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's, it's part of you. It's part of who you are. It's part of what you discuss all the time. People know that that's what you talk about. People talk about it with you. Even, you know, when you're, you're, you're with your friends, you're playing poker, you're playing golf, you're playing whatever, whatever it is, they ask you questions about it. So, so many advisors don't retire. And, um, what's the old expression, you know, the cobbler's children have no shoes, right?

[00:41:56] Uh, advisors, many advisors are actually guilty of not thinking about their own retirement because that's, because they're talking about it every day with other people. So, you know, we have to be aware of this as well. Even if, even if, you know, again, traditional retirement isn't part of, of an advisor's plan, you still have to think about what that road is going to look like for yourselves.

[00:42:21] Um, so sometimes you have to, you know, the advisors have to have to treat yourself as, as a client and sometimes it even, you know, it even can help to have conversations with other advisors, right? For yourself. Um, uh, so it's, it's something that, that seems weird, but it's something that we've done internally here. Well, I appreciate that when, when that ties into the great wealth transfer that's, that's occurring and will occur in there.

[00:42:49] Um, it just bringing that up as a topic and you can take that really in any direction you'd like, but I was hoping you could touch on that. Yeah. I mean, it's, I mean, it's an enormous, I mean, you read the studies and whatever the numbers are X number of trillions of dollars, who knows what the number really is. It's, it's, it's, it's gigantic. So the details really don't matter.

[00:43:12] Um, but you know, it is, it is happening and it is, it is something where, um, uh, you know, putting it from whatever, you know, however you want to define generations, baby boomers, or whatever that are controlling the bulk of this wealth right now that are transitioning to, to these next generations. Um, and you know, it creates, it creates a lot of things. It creates opportunities.

[00:43:40] Um, it creates problems. It has the unfortunate ability to create conflicts, massive conflicts inside of families, things that can be tragic for families. Um, and, and, you know, what is the solution for, for all of these things, good and bad opportunities and problems? It's communication. Um, and, and it's education.

[00:44:08] And, um, you know, unfortunately the, that there's a lot of people, um, that hold wealth in all generations. I know that the stereotype will say that it's older people only. That's not true. It's, it happens all across the board who don't share information, right? Whether it's with an advisor or with their families or whatever else. And, um, you know, we've seen lots of situations where, where the biggest problems get created because people inherit things that they didn't understand. They, they don't understand the tax ramifications of it.

[00:44:38] Sometimes they don't understand their, their need, their usage of it. Um, in many cases there, there are, uh, there, there could have been strategies that, um, that could have drastically improved the way that assets are transferred that, but they have to be done ahead of times. Sometimes it's simple things, simple, not easy. Like you've said, you know, like the estate planning side, the, um, you know, simple wills

[00:45:05] and trusts, uh, which is, which is all most people need. Um, but you know, these steps aren't taken. They, they are, they are protected. They are not explained. They are not explained within families. Um, and, and, you know, sometimes it's because of lack of comfort. Sometimes it's because of, you know, fear of what people will do with the information, how they might treat people differently. Um, uh, you know, sometimes it might be embarrassment.

[00:45:34] I mean, there's all different, there's all different emotions that are tied up in this. And once again, what are we talking about here? We're talking about emotions. We're not talking about numbers. We're not talking about math. Um, and, and so, you know, of course, and I, I obviously realized that, that, um, it is to my and my industry's advantage to say this, but if this is something that the people are not, uh, where, where they, they don't have a ton of comfort working with someone to guide

[00:46:04] you through the process, uh, can be enormously important. And, and, you know, the objections that people have in many cases, fees, whatever it is. Yep. Those things exist, but, um, the opportunities that it can create, the things that it can save, the, the, the, the financial benefits of that. Um, if it's done right, I would argue that it drastically outweighs some of the short-term

[00:46:30] concerns that are out there, but, um, it is, there's just an, there's an enormous, enormous lack of financial education in, in our world. Um, and, and, you know, it is, it is pervasive. It is consistent. Um, but it creates a lot of problems. Um, and it's something that, that, uh, that, that, you know, our industry hopefully can help with.

[00:46:56] Hey golfers, you might not even know that you're looking for it, but this is the best golf sock that you can have. The golf sock. Their grip technology is absolutely stunning. I even use it when I'm running. That's how good these socks are. You're absolutely going to love it. It's like a golf glove for your feet. The golf sock. Click on the link. You, you have a really good line and I was hoping you could just elaborate on that, but you spoke about it being a pure communication game. Yeah.

[00:47:26] I was hoping you could elaborate on that. Sure. Yeah. I mean, this, I mean, I kind of hinted at it just a second ago, right? It's, it's, um, our, that's what our entire industry is about. It's about, it's about communication. I always laugh at, you know, sometimes I'll meet people and I'll ask what, what we do and I'll tell them and they go, Oh, you must be really good at math. Uh, no, no. Our, our, our kids, uh, our, our, our, our kids can, can do all the math that we do on most days, right?

[00:47:56] It's addition, subtraction, multiplication, and division. I mean, it's, we're doing budgets. We're doing, you know, we're doing simple stuff like that. The key as an advisor is, you know, I think you have that, that core of a teacher, um, you know, the ability to listen, the ability to understand emotions, um, and, and to understand what, what's really, excuse me, what's really causing people to make certain kinds of choices, decisions.

[00:48:26] Um, and, and it, it is about the way that we connect and communicate and, and just plain old talking is still, I believe the most important part of it. We all know, you know, and there, there are lots of different ways to communicate. Um, I always, I always laugh when I hear things like, Oh, everybody in this generation talks this way. Everybody in such and such generation will only talk over the phone.

[00:48:55] Everybody who's young will only use, you know, we'll only text or we'll be careful about absolutes. Right. I mean, we have, we have people that are in their eighties and nineties who are, who are texting and sending emails and, you know, with, you know, texting with emojis and all this stuff. And we've got 20 year olds who don't own computers. So, you know, yes, there are, of course there are, there are more of certain types. It's in certain areas.

[00:49:23] Um, but understanding how best to communicate these things, um, is, is critical. And talking is still the most important part because, you know, when people, even when they do send you an email with a question, I mean, how many times as advisors do we see questions and we say, all right, you can kind of tell that you need to explain two or three different concepts so that the person really understands the question that they're asking so that then

[00:49:50] you can answer it in a way that, that will truly get them the information that they need. You could answer the question quickly, but you don't solve the lack of understanding problem behind it. And it's just going to come up again. So, um, you know, there, there are times a lot of the emails that I send, send back out are okay. Great question. This is exactly the right thing to be talking about. When can we get on the phone? And when can we get on zoom? When can we meet in person to, to actually talk this through?

[00:50:19] Cause there's, there's three or four layers of this that we've got to uncover. And that's part of the, the major client service that you provide. Absolutely. Um, and you know, it's funny, everybody talks about all this, these new tools and technology in our industry. And, and, you know, I, I do a lot of conferences where, you know, like where we met and, um, I've done, you know, they kind of go in waves, I feel, and I've done quite a few of them in the last seven or eight months.

[00:50:47] Um, some of it kind of tied to your question earlier about the development. Um, but I've done some that, uh, you know, for, for the advisors that might be hearing this, you know, I've done a lot of them lately. And, and the one that I spoke at in Nashville was, you know, where was kind of about this very topic. There has never been a time more than the last year where tools have absolutely exploded in our industry.

[00:51:16] Um, and, and you go to these, you go to these events and it's overwhelming. I mean, I did an AI conference back in October. Um, and, and it was just every single new toy. And, and I mean, in that, you know, it's June right now, that was October. That's like the stone age. This stuff is, this stuff has evolved 10 times since October.

[00:51:40] And, um, you know, when, when, when I spoke in Nashville, um, that was, that was basically the topic. And they asked me what I wanted to talk about. And I said, well, you know, it's an advisor audience. And I said, you know, this is like an arms race. That's what it feels like, but, you know, and yeah, there's a ton of tools out here, but you know, I had, I kind of went through this emotional thing. Are we behind? We don't have every single new toy that's out there.

[00:52:07] Uh, we're, we're incorporating a lot of it and you have to, uh, but am I behind by not having all these tools? And I finally kind of came to the realization. It's like, okay, hang on a second. It reminded me what, what was happening in my own head reminded me of some of the conversations that we have with clients when there's a lot of stuff going on in the markets. Oh my God, should I be doing more? Should I be doing this?

[00:52:32] And, and, and so I recognized eventually that I needed to tell myself the same thing that I say, which is calm down. Hang on a minute. Okay. Everybody's needs in the finance, the, the, the, the folks that we work with haven't changed 10 times in eight months. Okay. So, so let's look at what is out there. What are the best tools? What are the ways that we can become more efficient? There's some amazing tools. There's never been a better time.

[00:53:02] The tools have been completely democratized, right? Because gone are the days when only the biggest firms like Merrill Lynch or whoever else had all the best toys because they were the only ones that could afford to build them. Those, I mean, those days are basically gone. We, that's not a shot at Merrill Lynch. It's just a realization that, that all of these tools are out there. And even as an, you know, as an individual or an independent advisory firm, we can all

[00:53:30] use these things and incorporate them in a really effective way. And the ultimate irony of all of this technology and all this evolution is that it, it frees us up as, as it is incorporated in a more effective way. It is, it has the ability to free us up to do the least technologically advanced thing that we do, which is talk to people.

[00:53:52] So that's, that's the real opportunity, I think, you know, for, for advisors that are out there now is don't be overwhelmed by it. Don't be extremely scared by this. I, I, I wrote, I wrote this down. Um, it popped into my head during one of these things. And I said, you should always be skeptical when the person pushing the fear. And in this case, the fear is you're not advanced enough. Right.

[00:54:21] Always be skeptical when the person pushing the fear is also the person selling the solution. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So, you know, and that's what it, that's really what it felt like. Oh my God, everybody's going to be using these tools and you're crazy or you're behind if you're not doing it. All right. How is the, what, what is the best way to actually incorporate this stuff and, and, and make it useful for us? And that doesn't mean, and by the way, if you go too fast, you could mess up other things, compliance and all the other aspects that we have to follow. So yeah, never ask a barber for your haircut.

[00:54:51] That's right. No, that's great. Mike, Mike on, on that realm. Um, can you share with us straight line and then the vision and, and where straight line is headed? Yeah. Yeah. As you said, um, we were founded, um, with the, really the ability to work, um, for inside of exist work for with individuals, but work inside of existing retirement plans like 401ks, 403bs, 457 plans.

[00:55:20] Um, and that's been in our DNA since we were founded. And I, and to be clear, I was not the founder of straight line. I was here shortly after, but that's everything that we've done since 2002. Um, and that's the way that we've grown primarily is by working with employers. Um, we happen to have a particular specialty in higher education, um, nonprofits, things like that.

[00:55:47] And we, we work by coming in with an education focused, um, you know, initiatives and, and helping people, you know, teach people, helping to teach people about how their retirement plans work. Uh, but also being able to manage their accounts while they remain employed. Okay. Most advisors, certainly back in 2001, 2002, almost no one was doing that.

[00:56:15] And it's still fairly uncommon even today. Um, but that's, that's how we grew up where we knew we could build relationships with people as they were working and really wherever they were. Um, that, that when the, that transition that we were planning to do on, you know, February 27th of 2020, uh,

[00:56:38] was largely about evolving those services that, that had to take a backseat for a bit, but we have been working diligently on this over the last few years to really build the foundation to, to restart some of those initiatives. Uh, restart, restart implies that we stopped. That's not true. Uh, but to, to really put new life into those initiatives. Mm-hmm.

[00:56:59] And, um, we, we have, uh, partnered with a firm called Financial Wellness Labs that provides, um, financial wellness solutions. Um, and that is, but the reason that we've done that is we know that our best path of expansion is working with employers again.

[00:57:22] Again, education, nonprofit is, is a bit of our specialty, but working with employer groups to deliver this education. What these tools now allow us to do is to deliver that education in a really effective and scalable way wherever people are on their financial journey. From people just getting started who have basic, you know, budgeting questions. Um, and I don't mean basic as an unimportant.

[00:57:48] I mean, I mean kind of just the, the beginning, the foundational questions that are critically important to build those habits over time. But what's your save and what's your spend? Saving, spending, budgeting, debt, repayment, whatever it is. Um, we have, the, the partnership affords us, uh, access to live coaches, uh, financial coaches who are, are not advisors.

[00:58:10] Um, but can, can help guide people through the process, which is frankly the, the, the step that most financial wellness programs miss. Um, and because it's just all technology based. So we believe that it has to be both technology based with human, uh, you know, with, with human involvement and human access.

[00:58:30] And then onto the evolution, uh, for folks who do need the advisory work, um, and, and who are kind of at that point where, uh, where they, they need that level of help and, and the financial planning and all of the things that come with it. Um, we believe that it is a true end to end solution. We are really, really excited, um, about some of the things that we've structured.

[00:58:54] Um, uh, you know, we, we have been building the, uh, the, the capacity and, um, you know, the, the tech. Okay. It is, it is tech driven too. Don't, don't, don't, uh, get me wrong on what I was saying before. It's not that that stuff is unimportant. Um, it just has to be incorporated in an effective way and it has to be incorporated with, with human, you know, partnership.

[00:59:21] So, um, we are, we are very excited about our future. Um, we, we believe that we have the ability to, to help a lot of people, which is, you know, what this industry is all about. Um, and, and still to be able to deliver it in a way that if I may use the most overused word in our industry, unique, uh, every firm says it.

[00:59:43] I know, uh, but we, we believe that we are able to, um, to help in a comprehensive way, um, for, you know, whether it's with employers from an educational standpoint, um, wherever people are in a way that, that, uh, we think is, is a little bit different. Hmm. No, I appreciate that. I appreciate you sharing the vision of straight line and Mike in just the industry. And let's just look at the RIA space.

[01:00:11] How do you see that evolving and changing into the next several years? Um, that is a great question and something that I, I've spent a lot of time listening, reading, thinking. Um, you know, I think that some of it, some of it we've, we've covered, right.

[01:00:30] The, um, the technology side, uh, and, and all of the tools that are out there, um, that, that, that we can use to become more comprehensive in our, uh, in deliverables. I don't just mean straight line. I mean, you know, the industry as a whole, um, the industry, you know, all of the stats will tell you that the industry is aging.

[01:00:52] Um, and there are a significant percentage of advisors, um, and who cover a significant percentage of assets that are currently being managed that are going to retire in some form, uh, in the next five to 10 years. Um, our industry, um, our industry needs to get younger. Our industry needs to be more diverse.

[01:01:20] Um, and it's something that we've spent a lot of time on. Um, a lot of schools have picked up on this. And again, us being in the higher education space, uh, puts us very close to some of these programs. Um, we have two interns that are on the other side of that wall right now, but from one of these programs that are, um, uh, in this case, Michigan State University, who that's based on essentially based on the CFP curriculum. Um, and we, so we believe very strongly in that.

[01:01:50] And, and the, the, the mentoring aspect that comes along with that is something that I, I really love and get to spend a lot of time doing. Um, but yeah, the, the industry needs more people. It needs, it needs more advisors. It needs more, um, you know, more support people, even as all of these tools and AI are coming on board to make things faster and more efficient.

[01:02:14] Um, that's, you know, the industry will need to continue to evolve to look more like the country. Um, and, and so, yeah, it's, it's, uh, that's, that's probably the biggest, you know, the biggest thing that, that is happening. We're seeing it, you know, we're seeing, we're going into these rooms, um, and presenting to students in these programs. And, and, um, it's really exciting, you know, and, and the kids that are coming out of these programs are really well trained.

[01:02:45] These programs to tie it back to your first question and myself, it reminds me in a lot of ways of the professional golf management program, right? That program was designed to bring people into that industry and give them the background while they're in school that you normally couldn't get until you were out. And you, so you had a huge advantage and that's what that program did. That's what that program still does. These things, I see them is almost exactly the same concept.

[01:03:14] It's just towards this industry. Um, so, so that's a, that's a really exciting thing for growth in our world. Um, and it's going to bring in a lot of new talent and I think it's wonderful. Well, you did a great job there of, uh, bringing that full circle, putting the bow on that. That was awesome. Mike. Yeah. Well, I, I'd love to say that I planned it that way, but thank you. What questions should I be asking Mike that, that I just haven't asked? Um, you know, it's a, it's a great question.

[01:03:43] Um, you know, I think that, um, one, one of the things that I always like, you know, I mentioned, uh, that, that I haven't been reading as much as I'd like, but, but I have been picking it back up. Um, I, I always liked to, you know, kind of find out what people are reading right now or, or what, it doesn't have to be a book necessarily. What resources people are, um, are, are, you know, bringing to their daily life.

[01:04:10] And I certainly have a few that I I'm happy to share. I don't know if you, you have anything that you, you like. Are you going to, are you going to plug puke and rally? Is that what you're going to say here? Well, that is how we met. And yeah, yes, I am. And not only am I, okay. You didn't, you actually didn't know that I was going to do this, but yes. No, I didn't. You gave me this book in Nashville. I did read it. I thought it was really fun. And just so you know, you didn't know I was doing this either. So this is not a setup. He did not, he did not prompt me to do this.

[01:04:39] Uh, but I actually bought your mental training for golf. First one. Yeah. So eventually I'll start playing golf again. I've kind of been semi-retired for about the last 10 or 12 years, but that's going to come back. Um, and so I figured I would have some more tools, but no, there are some authors that I, that I do think are helpful in our industry. And again, some of them are actually none of them that I'm, that are really about our industry. I think it's just more about thinking, right?

[01:05:08] I think, uh, you know, I've, I've read a lot from, uh, Daniel Pink, um, Benjamin Hardy and Dan Sullivan. A lot of their work together about, you know, um, scaling things and, and really just how to think about the business. Um, um, Michael Kitsis is a great resource, uh, you know, for, for our industry that that is an industry specific thing. And, you know, Kitsis is, uh, an amazing thinker and, and, um, researcher of what we do in our world.

[01:05:37] And his material is fantastic. Um, and Malcolm Gladwell is another one when you, you talk about how to think or, or how to observe how other people think is amazing. And, um, the last one that I like to point out, cause I'm just a nerd. I'm a nerd about a lot of subjects, but I, I tend, I happen to be a nerd about, um, history and a lot of political history. Um, and I, so I read a lot in that.

[01:06:01] And, and my favorite author on that side is Doris Kearns Goodwin, who I just think is just frighteningly brilliant when it comes to, to, um, historical viewpoints of different presidents and things like that. So anything specific there? Well, she wrote, I mean, she wrote Lincoln, uh, you know, well, the, the, the, the, the book that the movie Lincoln was based on, um, was called team of rivals, which was her book.

[01:06:31] Um, and that one, um, that one is not, uh, you described your book as a, as a plane, you kind of a plane flight book. I'm sorry. Airplane book. Yeah. This is not an airplane book. This one, this one has got some beef to it. It takes some time to get through, but it is stunning about how you talk about how teams are built. Um, and how Lincoln happens to be my favorite president, um, and, and how he thought about things and how he built it.

[01:06:57] Um, there are several others of hers that I've read and, and she's a scholar of multiple, um, presidents and she actually was on Lyndon Johnson staff. So, um, she's got a fascinating view of the world, but that book about Lincoln and about how he built his team. Um, and that, that is, is fascinating. Um, so that was the one thing. And if I may say one more thing, I think it's, it's important for me to, to put this out there.

[01:07:26] I, I've listened to a couple of your, um, couple of other episodes, of course, of your podcast. And, and, um, uh, a lot of the, the other folks that have been on there, when you talk about hinge moments have, um, you know, they've dealt with something that is, is, you know, horrific tragedies and deaths and families and car accidents and, you know, near death experiences.

[01:07:50] And, and I, I think it's important for me to say that I realized what a privilege it is and how fortunate that I am to be talking about these kinds of things as the hinge moments. Um, that is not lost on me. Um, and God has blessed us in ways that we, we could never, uh, we could never ask for. And then we pray that that continues. Um, but you know, these are, you know, everybody has their things.

[01:08:19] Of course, there are challenging times and there've been challenging times with this, but we, we do really do our best to remember that we are coming at this from a place of, um, uh, you know, where of, of opportunity and privilege and, and gratefulness for the opportunities that we've had. And a lot of people have helped us, um, a lot of people continue to help us.

[01:08:45] And, um, you know, it's part of the reason why we, we feel that, um, you know, it's our responsibility to pass this stuff along. So I just wanted to say that before we ended. Oh, it's awesome, man. Mike, that's a mic drop moment there, man. I appreciate you sharing that, man. I'm so, so glad we got to hang out and, and, and you share your insight and vision and gratitude and perspective. It was great, Mike. Thanks so much, man. Rob, thank you. Appreciate the opportunity.

[01:09:33] Thanks for listening to mental toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. To find out more about Dr. Rob, visit his website at drrobbell.com or follow him on Twitter at Dr. Rob Bell and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of mental toughness as soon as it's available. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you next time.