Ep. 192 - ​Darrick Hutchens - Leadership Cannot Be Delegated

[00:00:09] Welcome to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes, executives, and expert coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hinge moment. Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:36] Our guest today on the Mental Toughness Podcast, financial advisor, owner of Monon Wealth Management. So since 2014, he understands that performance isn't just about numbers. It's about consistency under pressure, having a plan, and staying with that plan. Works closely with his clients to bring clarity, discipline to their financial decisions. He's built his career around helping people stay steady when it matters the most, guiding them through uncertainty, with a focus on the process, over the product, or emotion.

[00:01:07] When away from the office, that same mindset shows up in competition. Avid golfer, man. Highly competitive amateur golfer. Multiple club champion. It's a reflection of the focus and preparation and resilience he brings to everything he does. It's a conversation about staying composed, trusting your process, performing your best when it matters the most. Our guest today, Derek Hutchins. Derek, thanks, man, for taking this time to join us, bud.

[00:01:29] Yeah. Hey, thanks, Rob. I appreciate this. I think you were on a podcast of mine, what, three, four years ago now? Maybe more. So happy to have enough experience now to actually have something to offer your audience. Oh, that's great, man. Let's start off with that, man. Let's start off with golf. Yeah. You played golf in college. Obviously, I mean, it's always been part of your identity.

[00:01:58] And when you, like, I mean, as golfers can attest to this, the difficulty with it, it's a jealous sport. It wants your time. You balance that, building a career, your family with it. But talk to us about, I mean, what is it about golf, man, that's always spoken to you?

[00:02:18] Well, you know, I was always an athlete and I always enjoyed playing sports. You know, when I was growing up, you didn't specialize the way that kids do now.

[00:02:33] And when it was baseball season, you played baseball. When it was basketball, you know, you played basketball. And then when in the fall, everybody played football. So I was always an athlete, always rotated through those main sports.

[00:02:51] My grandfather was a, he was a golfer and he was a pretty good golfer, probably about a mid 80s shooter, enjoyed the game and, and took it probably the way most people should, you know, enjoyed shooting good scores, but didn't let it, didn't let his, let it define his identity.

[00:03:11] And, um, I remember when I first started showing a little bit of interest in golf, he said, Hey, he said, uh, if you're going to learn to play golf, you need to learn to do it the right way so that you're not fighting bad habits the rest of your life.

[00:03:26] And so he paid to get me into some junior clinics and showed me how to grip the club and so forth. And that was all great, but it wasn't until, um, my size and I'm, I'm fine. I'm okay. Size now, six, one close to 200 pounds. But, you know, I remember in middle school showing back up for, um, ninth grade football.

[00:03:52] And man, some things had changed in that locker room and I wasn't one of them. And, um, so the hard hitting linebacker that I always was, which is the way I, uh, viewed my identity back then. Well, it's kind of tough to be that when you're, you're undersized compared to everybody that's hitting puberty a little bit earlier than what you were.

[00:04:16] So that was, uh, that was an opportunity, uh, for me. And I started playing a little bit more golf at that point. And we all did, you know, the, the entire athlete group that I hung with, we started playing golf at a little course. That's not there anymore.

[00:04:30] I marked, uh, friends would golf course in Canby, Indiana. And, um, and I was, you know, these same guys that I, I, I, because of my size, uh, you know, the lack of maturity that I had at that point, I couldn't really compete with them anymore on the football field or, um, or certainly the basketball court.

[00:04:52] But what I could do is beat them at golf because I'd had those lessons early on. And so what I liked about that was, first of all, I like to win. Uh, that's, that's been a constant in my life. Um, but the fact that, Hey, if you do things in a certain order and you put the right fundamentals in place that in golf, that tends to trump your athletic ability.

[00:05:19] Now I'm not saying athletic ability isn't important in golf. It certainly is. And it becomes more and more so, you know, every year, but back then, you know, I was the only one that really knew how to grip the club and how to chip and how to do that. And so it allowed for me to, uh, beat those guys who were just naturally better athletes that drew me to it. Cause I had control over, I had control over the process.

[00:05:46] I had control over, Hey, if I do things in the right order, if I put the time in, apparently I can not only compete with guys that are larger than me, but I can, I can actually beat them. So that's, that's what drew me to them. Just my competitive nature and the ability to actually have some control over the trajectory of my, um, my golf career. What's the biggest life lesson you've gotten from the game of golf?

[00:06:18] Well, as I look back, you know, sometimes you don't learn lessons as you're, you know, at the time, it's only looking back years later. I think that, uh, resiliency, the ability to spend a lot of time alone, which, uh, is definitely necessary to practice golf. Nobody in Plainfield, Indiana wanted to spend as much time, uh, on the driving range or practice.

[00:06:44] T, um, nobody wanted to spend as much time on the putting green or the chipping green as what I did. So I spent a tremendous amount of time when I was, uh, you know, going through my youth alone. And, um, and I think that there's a, I think that it, it, it forces you to get to know yourself. So that's, that's one, as I look back, uh, just, you know, being okay, spending time alone.

[00:07:13] The second thing is, is that let's admit, I mean, anybody that's listening knows if they play golf, um, they know it doesn't always go well. Okay. And that despite the fact that, you know, I said, if you put things in a certain order, you can affect your trajectory. It's anything but a straight line. And, um, and I think that it is learning how to respond, uh, from setbacks.

[00:07:40] I specifically remember, uh, the 1999 state, um, I think it was 1999 state amateur and, um, or no, it was a state open. And, um, I had made the cut and, um, it was a four round tournament back then. I think it's only three rounds now, but it was four rounds back then. So I'd made the cut after the first two days. And I think I threw up a monster number on day three.

[00:08:08] It was, you know, 85, 86, something, something that was probably the worst score of the day for those that made the cut. It was up in, um, uh, rock. I think it was rock hollow. So, you know, hour, hour and a half North of where I lived. And sure enough, I drove home. I was done. And I said, well, I, you know, I'm, I'm not going back for the fourth round.

[00:08:33] And, uh, I remember a conversation with my dad and he let me know, he said, um, you know, uh, a quit, you know, once you're a quitter, you're always a quitter. And so that night I drove to, uh, a driving range, literally a driving range down in Greenwood. And, uh, it was called Adi Golf Center. I think it still is. Um, and I hit balls until the wee hours of the night under the lights.

[00:09:00] And I woke up at five o'clock the next morning. Cause I definitely had the first tee time the next day. And, uh, I went out and I performed quite well and shot one of the lower scores of that day. And, um, and I was so proud of myself for that, that moment, the resiliency of going back and just what I learned through that whole process. And, and clearly I, it's not like I found my golf swing. It was just, Hey, you are going to finish this round. Stop pretending you're not going to finish it.

[00:09:30] And, um, and let's perform the best that we can with what we have today. Mm-hmm. How do you think that equates then? And I appreciate you sharing that, man. How does that equate? Cause I like the point that you said, like we can't connect the dots looking forward. Right. And when we're in the moment of being tested, we don't always know what that test is or what the lesson is. How do you think that equates to just overall the way people then approach a financial planning, how they approach their finances? I mean, how does that directly relate to, to golf? Yeah.

[00:10:00] Yeah. So, well, you know, I talked about that. It's just not like a straight line. Um, and you know, while over time it can get better, it doesn't get better day by day, week by week, or even month by month. You know, that's not, that's not the way that it goes. Um, it's an ebb and flow kind of thing that only looking backwards, do you see, Hey,

[00:10:28] there was some kind of a pattern here, but man, when you're really caught up in the middle of it, it feel, it doesn't feel like it at all. You know, recently. So here we are. It's, uh, the conclusion of April and 2026. And I believe we're sitting at all time highs in the stock market as we're, uh, recording this. Uh, but it's been anything but, uh, a smooth ride this year.

[00:10:56] And, um, but yet, you know, over the course of the last 12 months, and I've been doing plenty of reviews with clients. We've been looking at 12, 24 and 36, uh, month returns, and they've been pretty good.

[00:11:14] I mean, we've had a couple of pullbacks along the way, but, you know, even fairly traditional, uh, you know, moderate portfolios are in the high, you know, high teens. And some even approaching and surpassing 20% average annualized growth over the last three years.

[00:11:37] It's been a unique situation because, um, I've, I've had to kind of back up a little bit and say, Hey, I just want you guys to know, talking to my clients regarding their financial plan, that it's not going to stay like this. And that's not me saying, Oh, because of this, or because of that, we're doomed to fail over the next six months. That's not what I'm saying at all.

[00:12:01] I'm saying that an average return is made up of a bunch of really good time periods and some really bad time periods. And it's tough to know, uh, it's, it's easy to identify which one you're currently in or which one you just currently got out of, but it's, I find it impossible to know what is, you know, what's the next, you know, what's the next run we're in.

[00:12:25] But I do know what the averages have looked like over the last hundred years, the last 50 years, the last 40 years, however long you want to look at history. And I know that 20% average annualized returns are not realistic. So we can't build a financial plan based upon that. The other thing that I would say is, is that at the beginning of that, of this great run that we've been on, Hey, things look pretty dire.

[00:12:53] You know, uh, Rob, I worked with you in 2022. Uh, I consulted with you for the entire of the year and it was an interesting year for us to work together because nothing worked. Uh, stocks were down 20%. Uh, bonds were down more than 20%. We had banks going under because they held long dated U S treasuries, the safest investment in the world. They were going under because they held them.

[00:13:22] Um, and so, um, you know, so when you think about, uh, you think about this, this game of money and that it's an ebb, you know, it's an ebb and flow kind of game. And it doesn't, it's not like it's an ebb and flow back to a zero sum. Cause that's not the truth. The, the line goes lower left to upper right. Oh, given enough time, but it is certainly anything but straight.

[00:13:48] And while you're in the middle of it, it sure can take, feel like it's taken more time than you'd prefer. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Well said, man. You know, I always think like when people are talking about risk tolerance, risk tolerance, risk tolerance. I think what they're actually saying is loss tolerance, right? Cause. 100%. Yeah. Talk to us about that, man. Yeah. So it's funny. Like, uh, so we do, we invest heavily in technology here at Monon wealth.

[00:14:14] Uh, for a long time, I've been using the absolute top analytical tool to try and measure someone's quote unquote risk tolerance. It is, it's now called nitrogen. It used to be called risk allies. I think risk allies is a better name, quite frankly, because of what it actually does. But anyway, and it rates a client's risk tolerance on a scale between one and 100. And so it's interesting.

[00:14:43] Um, I personally like to go through the questionnaire with my clients. And when we do that, I just acknowledge, you know, when it gives us a, Hey, everybody's fine. Making 20% over a six month time period. I mean, who wouldn't, right? Um, so let's focus in on, Hey, how would you feel if you lost 20% over a six month time period?

[00:15:09] And, um, because, you know, and I see it all the time, you know, we talk about a lot of assets that have become popular. Whether it is cryptocurrencies or, you know, when we were in COVID, it had, um, you know, there were some of the, uh, some of these GameStop type names and so forth. And I kept telling people, all you are seeing is the upside of volatility.

[00:15:39] This is not a new, you know, this isn't a new paradigm. This is a volatile asset and you are currently experiencing the upside of volatility. And, um, and I don't know if that resonates with people, but it's something that I've spent an awful lot of time thinking about. And that is, is that, Hey, I mean, and that can be true with any asset.

[00:16:02] The higher the growth expectation of the asset, typically the more volatility it's going to experience. Now, everybody thinks about, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to throw it back to you. You know, while everybody's fine with 20% upside, when I, when we talk about volatility, naturally somebody's mind goes to the downside. Oh, you know, the negative side. Guess what? The upside of volatility is, is there as well.

[00:16:31] It's not just that it just goes down and then gets back to on track. No, you know, it, it overshoots on the upside as well. So, yeah, I think everybody is, um, everybody has to, to think through that, uh, think through what, you know, what ride they're willing to accept. And quite frankly, um, it's as challenging under the good times as it is the tough, as it is the bad times.

[00:16:59] Because when, uh, when the time, when times are good, you think you have more, you know, you think you're stronger mentally than what you actually, you actually are as it relates to your money. And, oh, I know things go up and down. Okay. Well, you know, correct. Mentally, we all do know, but emotionally we have somewhat forgotten what it actually feels like to, to take a loss like that.

[00:17:28] So, um, you know, we, you know, 2022 was an interesting year. I worked with you for the entirety of the year. And I also spent an awful lot of time, uh, monitoring our investment strategies here at Monon Wealth. At the conclusion of 2022, I wrapped up an engagement with you and I was sitting on a, um, I was sitting at the pool. We don't always go someplace for Christmas break, but we did that year.

[00:17:58] And, um, and I like to write out my goals. That's something that I think you've, you've taught me, Hey, what are the goals we have? Um, what are some of the things that you've learned and so forth over the course of the year? And then I read them to my wife. And the one thing I had on there, and this was both for my own money and for my clients is, is that I only wanted to invest in things that I could live with. Hmm. My wife said, well, what's that mean? That you could live with.

[00:18:24] I said, what it means is, is that no matter what happens over the next six months, that I'm going to have so much confidence in that investment strategy that I can stick with it. That can be that it underperforms some hot, you know, mag seven stocks. It could be that it goes down 20%. It could be that, uh, Jim Cramer on CNBC says that it's a, uh, that it's not a good investment. No, no, no.

[00:18:52] I'm, I'm going to only invest in things that through my research and through my process that I am so convinced. Is high quality that I can live with it. No matter what is right around the corner. Well said, man. Well said. Hey, good looking.

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[00:20:53] Man, now let's see, just warm-up questions, bud. Now we're getting fired up here, man. I mean, Derek, I love asking about hinge moments, the one moment, one person, one event that makes all the difference in our lives. And, you know, tragedies are immediate hinge moments, but the other hinge moments, we don't always know they happen when they actually happen. But talk to us about one of your hinge moments. Your wife is pregnant with faith. Talk to us there. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:20] So I kind of going back to my youth, I told you a little bit about ninth grade football and noticing that things had changed. Well, certainly I eventually hit puberty. I don't think that I really grew up as fast as others. I did play college golf. That required a tremendous amount of attention.

[00:21:43] And when I got out of college, I felt like I'd kind of missed some of those college days. I went to a small Christian college and was definitely focused in on golf over the course of that experience, that time period. And so when I got out, I was quite frankly, I was ready to hang up the clubs. I was not ready to focus in on my career.

[00:22:09] What I was interested in is focusing in on going out until three o'clock in the morning and hanging out and barely getting by. And quite frankly, Rob, that was enough for me up until the point that my wife, my wife came home and told me that we were pregnant or she was pregnant. And it was mine. Obviously, we were married. And I threw up.

[00:22:39] She actually took me to the hospital. I was so sick over it. But when I came home, everything had changed. Because despite that, you know, at the time I was in the investment business and I'd had I'd had some pretty decent jobs, quite frankly. I mean, I was a good producer for a while.

[00:23:05] I was I was in leadership, both with Prudential and then JP Morgan. But I wasn't giving it my all. And I certainly wasn't performing to my standards. I had taken a step back and was I was the guy in your local bank branch that was trying to talk you out of a CD and into a mutual fund. OK.

[00:23:32] And while, like I said, at the time, that was that was good enough for me. You know, I didn't have enough motivation to change my own life. But when my wife said, hey, we're pregnant, all of a sudden that life wasn't good enough for what turned out to be my daughter, Faith. I didn't want her to tell her. You know, I didn't I didn't want her to live the lifestyle of that I was living.

[00:24:01] I wanted her to see somebody who had more passion, was doing deeper work with bigger and more engaging clients and somebody that, you know, somebody that she could look up to and respect. And so at that moment, you know, it's not like it's like, oh, and everything changed.

[00:24:23] No, it's that I started building the foundation for what I'm still trying to grow into. OK. And that and it was just that I was like, I want to fulfill whatever potential I have. You know, and I knew I was so far away at that point from fulfilling my potential, my talent with people, my talent with math and investing and so forth got me through.

[00:24:53] But I wasn't I wasn't playing at 100 percent of my potential. I knew it. And at that point, that's when I just said, hey, it's time. It's time for me to to to to buckle in. And between me finding out that Shannon was pregnant, Shannon's my wife before the between that time and having the baby, I went I completed my CFP. It was my third go. The first two times the books had just sat on my desk.

[00:25:22] I didn't have enough motivation to act enough motivation to buy the courses, not enough to actually do them. So I completed my CFP, started making more impact with the clients that I had at the bank. And then shortly after she was born, pulled a Jerry Maguire moment and said, who's going with me? I'm starting my own firm. And and that's where we are today.

[00:25:52] So and I appreciate you sharing that. So let's bring it up to like current day. Talk to us like, hey, man, when you cut because, again, it's just like the market, right? It's it's not linear. There's a lot of ups and downs. There's a lot of, oh, identifying some of these gaps, some of these areas where, hey, man, I'm doing pretty well here, but not so well here. Right. Like priorities change. What does that look like today when you are like fully invested?

[00:26:20] Like what do you notice about yourself, man, when it's like you can reflect on it like, man, that was you know, I gave everything I had, especially this week or this month. Mm hmm. Well, there's been a couple of other moments, you know, I remember just because we started our own practice because there were only two that went with me. Ray and Stephanie came with me. And when we started our own practice, it's not like everything just changed. As a matter of fact, it got harder well before it got better.

[00:26:47] And and we were we were broke at the beginning. I mean, I went the first 18 months now, keep in mind, this is me with a new baby at home, a new house, because we had to move into a new house so that she had a room. And I went 18 months without a paycheck. Now, I did have some seed capital to begin the firm that that I was living off of. But, you know, when you don't have any money coming in, it's it's it's a constant worry.

[00:27:18] And so somewhere in the course of that, you know, things were going and there was progress, but it wasn't at the pace that I was that I was OK with. It wasn't going to take us to where we were. And so I remember we were all working out of cubicles here at the office at that time. And and I went over to Ray's cubicle. He was my partner. And I said, it's time to go all in.

[00:27:46] And this is either going to work or it's not. And if it doesn't work, then heck with it. Well, we can all go get jobs and make more money than what we're making right now. So, you know, what do we have to lose? And so Ray and I came up with a the concept of a seminar series. And the seminar series, you know, it had some different parts to it. Some of it was investment related.

[00:28:13] A lot of it we focused in on Social Security and, you know, claiming strategies at the time. It was a little bit more interesting than maybe what it is now based upon the current walls. But we came up with this and basically we said, hey, we're going to go out and we're going to meet a whole bunch of new people. We're going to spend a tremendous amount of money on marketing. Keep in mind, we didn't have any money and it's either going to work or it's not.

[00:28:40] And so Stephanie, myself and Ray, we began a process and we ran 80 seminars where we bought steak dinners for rooms full of people so that we could talk about how we could help them. We did 80 seminars over 18 months. And it was cranking. I mean, we were busy.

[00:29:09] Not only does that mean that, you know, we were doing it all. I mean, you know, we didn't send out the letters, but we did all the follow ups. We we did the entirety of the event. We created the slides. We greeted everybody when we got they got there. We were just out there trying to create great relationships. And it worked.

[00:29:29] And and so that was probably I mean, from a time standpoint, I mean, there was very few evenings that I got home before 930 quarter of 10 at night. And and so that was definitely a hinge moment that, you know, me walking over to Ray's cubicle and him acknowledging that, yeah, Derek, let's do this. That was a hinge moment. This is either going to work or it's not. But something has to change.

[00:29:58] And, you know, and so now, Rob, you know, I mean, listen, I don't you know, I don't know if I have anything that's as powerful as that right now. I mean, you know, every single year I can probably point to something. I was definitely going through some stuff when I chose to hire you. And I've gone through some stuff since then. That's just part of it.

[00:30:21] But so but, you know, somebody asked me two days ago, they said, hey, you know, like what what makes you you? And, you know, while I think I'm smart, I'm not the smartest guy in the world. I mean, there are there are plenty of people out there that are smarter, you know, you know, while I have experience, I don't have the most experience. You know, 26 years, there's people with more.

[00:30:48] You know, I think that what makes the difference is, is that no matter what hit us, we hit me. I just kept going. And, you know, I didn't like it, didn't feel good at the time.

[00:31:00] But I just kept showing back up at eight o'clock the next morning to go back to work and making the calls, talking to people, driving, trying to build good relationships for people and legit positively impact their life. I appreciate that, man. When you talk about the relationships, I mean, I believe like revenue is is the byproduct of great customer service and advice. A hundred percent.

[00:31:31] Because now, I mean, the advice part and, you know, I mean, anybody can kind of go get what they think they need. But talk to us about the customer service piece and service in the clients and that that impact that you have on people's lives. But even the face to face conversations, talk to us about that role. Well, I think, you know, listen, I mean, over the course of 26 years, I've seen this industry change a lot.

[00:32:00] When I first got into the industry, you know, for the most part, people sold proprietary products, you know, things that, hey, I have this and you can't buy it from anybody else other than my company. And that could be whether you started off on the insurance side, a mutual fund side or even the stock side. I mean, you know, basically the, you know, the stockbrokers at the time were saying, hey, we have knowledge that you don't have about this stock and it's going to go up.

[00:32:31] That's what they were selling. And and so we're a long way from that today, but it's taken 26 years to get there. And so, you know, it went from from proprietary products or proprietary research to where we are today or I'd say where we fell halfway through, which was advice.

[00:32:55] Advice advice was, hey, you know, with the with with with more people, really everybody now using the Internet, it's possible to get knowledge. Knowledge is as easy to get as as anybody or as anything. And you can buy the product from anybody. It doesn't matter if you are working with Merrill Lynch or an RIA like myself. You know, we we have access to the same stuff.

[00:33:26] So, you know, so the advice and how to implement that different those different investment strategies were really was really what we were selling and offering maybe five, six, seven, eight, nine years ago. OK, and even that has morphed into something different today.

[00:33:50] Now, the the things that we talk about clearly go beyond the scope of just investing. We talk about wealth enhancement through tax mitigation and liquidity planning. We talk about wealth protection and helping make sure that the money that our clients have can never be taken away from them unjustly through litigation.

[00:34:16] We talk to them a lot about wealth transfer, you know, you know, more likely than not, most of the clients that I have are going to have more money when they die than they do now. So making sure that we have it so that that money can go to whoever it is they want to go to in the most efficient way possible. We spend a lot of time on that.

[00:34:40] And then, you know, despite what you hear out there, you know, wealthy people who use financial advisors are probably the most charitable people in the world, especially Americans. And it is a very, very important thing. And so talking to clients about their charitable giving, what's important to them and helping them think through that has been another key component of the advice that we give.

[00:35:09] So that, again, was something that we were doing. I think we were fairly early on that. You know, again, maybe five, six years ago, we really started incorporating all those different things. And I'm seeing it. I'm seeing a change even again where advice. I mean, listen, with AI now, I can get all the advice I want through ChatGPT.

[00:35:33] I think that the advisor that is really making an impact with their clients today and that will be irreplaceable in the future is one that is providing not just advice, but leadership. I think leadership is so important in a world that's, you know, that there is so much, so many different opinions and so much, so much advice.

[00:35:56] Some, some combination of leadership and wisdom is really where the human advisor, a good human advisor can really make a deep impact with their clients. Mm-hmm. Yeah, well said, man. When, when there, when you make mistakes, and especially in your business, I mean, we always learn, I think, more from our mistakes than we do actually the wins. Yeah.

[00:36:25] But when you think of like mistakes you've made, what's a mistake that, that you kind of focus on? Like what, and what was the big lesson you learned from that setback? Well, there's plenty of mistakes that I've made over time. And at the time they seem, they, they, they impact you emotionally very deeply.

[00:36:53] And I think one of the things that people don't understand about good wealth managers or financial advisors is how deeply we feel our clients pain. Mm-hmm. And, and believe it or not, not all investments go perfectly. You know, keep in mind that it wasn't until 2022 that I said, I'm never going to invest in anything I can't live with.

[00:37:25] Well, you know, you come to some of those realizations by going through some tough times and by making some mistakes, whether those are investment mistakes or, or relationship mistakes. And, and, and I think that, you know, I think that there's two people in this world. At least there's two different types of advisors. There are those that have made mistakes and those that will.

[00:37:52] And, and, and so I've tried to do my best that any kind of, anytime that I've made a mistake, first of all, owning up to it. Second of all, trying to mitigate it as quickly as possible and as efficiently as possible. And, and certainly you learn from that. You know, if it's a, if it's an investment mistake, you got to look through, you got to look back and say, hey, what's the due diligence process that, that led to this? You know, what was I thinking?

[00:38:21] And good news is I document most things so I can go back and look at what was I thinking. Um, so, you know, like I said, I mean, you know, it's, it's one thing to make a mistake. It's, uh, it's one thing, you know, what you want to try and do is, is avoid making it a second time.

[00:38:37] Um, but yeah, I mean, things happen and pretty much anybody that's in, I don't know of anybody in this business that can say that they, uh, that a hundred percent of their investment selections have gone straight up or that have been, have been home runs. That's if that were the case, uh, uh, there would be no diversified portfolio. We would just pick the winner.

[00:39:00] Um, the, uh, client service, you know, associate the CSAs, um, years. You know, with, with Stephanie, um, talk to us about, and I know, I mean, she's a CFP, but I mean, she handles, um, you know, so much of, of like what you do as well.

[00:39:20] But talk to us about like the kitchen that you have at Monon Wealth Management, those that man, they really do all the hard work and, and just the importance of that and the leadership and the connection of making sure they're okay. So they can help, you know, service the clients as well. Yeah. Well, first of all, just to be real honest here, this is something that I'm still, I'm still attempting to grow every day, uh, trying to grow my leadership.

[00:39:46] I would say that I became a good leader to my clients before I become a good leader to my team. Um, I, there's, you know, somebody once said, you know, if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, you know, take a team. I think that's the way it goes, right, Rob? Go together. Yeah. Go together. Okay. Thank you. And at first I wanted to go fast. You know, I told you a little bit about my history and that I was behind.

[00:40:14] I felt like I was behind all of my peers because I didn't use my twenties the way that I should have. Um, and so I wanted to go fast. And so we ran with a, you know, when I'd had my Jerry Maguire moment, we had a very lean team here, you know? Um, and Stephanie couldn't have been a bigger part of that. It was just the three of us and the three of us, Stephanie, Ray, and myself, we worked super close together.

[00:40:42] Nobody worked harder than Stephanie. And, um, and she really was the glue that held the firm together for a long time. You know, Ray and I ran the appointments. We were attempting to make, uh, the investment advice and do the financial planning and all that stuff.

[00:41:01] Well, Stephanie did everything else, all the back office, all the, um, uh, setting of the appointments, the follow up, you know, the seminar series that we talked about, you know, getting those, uh, getting those set up and so forth. And so I couldn't, I couldn't appreciate her anymore for that. Um, and that was, you know, that, that, that's the time period that we were in. We were attempting to move fast as time has gone on.

[00:41:29] And now, you know, as I've, uh, grown up a little bit and I'm looking to not only go fast, but, uh, go far. The team has had to grow. And, um, and so in 2025, uh, you know, I like to come up, I told you about 2022 at the, at the, at the beach or whatever.

[00:41:52] And in 25, uh, I came up with a, uh, kind of an overarching here. What's the philosophy or what are we going to work on for the year? And it was to quote unquote, professionalize our business. And so what that meant, it meant, um, that I brought in a outsourced chief compliance officer and outsourced CFO.

[00:42:20] Uh, I hired somebody, uh, Brittany to be, uh, you know, HR marketing, you know, some, some, you know, kind of the face of the organization that can relate to those CFOs, to the CFO and the CCO. Um, you know, our team has grown. Jordan has joined us and she has been, uh, been out of this world. Stephanie's role continues to evolve.

[00:42:49] And, um, and Cassandra, who's been here now for a really long time and she's, she's amazing, uh, from a service standpoint. But, um, so it was really 2025 was all about putting those pieces together to allow for us to do what we wanted to do. And, um, and in, then in this year, uh, beginning of this year, I, I've completed the, the purchase of the entirety of the firm.

[00:43:19] I was a 50% owner coming into 26. Um, we put those things in place to, to ease the transition. And as of now, I bought the entirety of the firm. And the only reason I tell you that is because I came up with a new motto for 2026. And that is, is that leadership cannot be delegated. And so, um, whether that's true or not, that's the motto for this year.

[00:43:47] And that, and so I've, I've purposely spent a tremendous amount of time. Matter of fact, I block off my Mondays to attempt to develop these, this team that I have. And I'm going to tell you, um, you know, uh, from Hunter to Cassandra to Stephanie to Jordan and Brittany and Ray and everybody that's on the team, uh, here internally and externally.

[00:44:13] I feel like we have a whole bunch of a players and, um, but you know, a players, uh, of course, everybody wants to be an a player, but sometimes you have to have, you have to have the right mentoring. I certainly have mentoring. And so I'm attempting now to devote at least one day a week to going, uh, to attempting to develop my team members again, so that we can go far and not just fast. Well said, man. Well said.

[00:44:43] Part of a change in, especially in your business, man, detention facilities, correctional business owners, you know, it was interesting because MNA at the recent conference I went to MNA was, I mean, it was massive, absolutely massive discussions on that. But, but you wrote an article. I mean, you wrote about, I mean, you know, the corporate shield and, and the part that I really loved and my favorite one was when you talked about, you outlined like five exit paths that define a business owner's legacy. Yeah. I was hoping you could pick up on that and just, just share with us, man.

[00:45:11] Like what path do you see people default to? And why does that happen? Okay. Well, there's a lot in that question. You know, first of all, um, first of all, I don't mean for the double question, man. I can rephrase. That's okay. So first of all, you know, uh, I'm very passionate about, uh, about the corrections community.

[00:45:31] Um, you know, I have some of my absolute, uh, best friends and, um, and largest clients are leaders within the correctional community. They own construction or manufacturing companies that support the building of jails, mental health facilities, and the continual progress that that, that that's making.

[00:45:56] And it doesn't matter really whether you're, um, you're on the left side of the aisle or the right side of the aisle. I think everybody is in favor of seeing this, this get better, you know, uh, for, you know, more humane environments, uh, tighter protection, you know, better care for people who are mentally ill.

[00:46:19] So, you know, they're, they're doing so much good work in an industry that really gets no notoriety whatsoever, you know? Um, so I have a tremendous amount of passion for this group of people. This group of people also has, um, well, they're, they're kind of a changing of the guards right now.

[00:46:47] A lot of the leaders in their current community are, um, you know, we're all getting older, me too. And they're looking for what's next. And that doesn't necessarily mean retirement for them or anything else, but these people have built big businesses that support a lot of families. The families of their employees, the families of the partners, you know, of the other companies.

[00:47:15] And so it's super important that there is continuity with the business when, you know, if and when the, the leader chooses to do something different. Okay. And so in recognizing that it's given me, um, it's given me a, an, an opportunity to have a lot of conversations that have deep, deep impact.

[00:47:42] And again, not just on the impact of that, that individual owner, but of all the families of all the households for which that business supports. And so a lot of them are trying to think through, Hey, you know, what's next? You know, when you're a business owner, it's, it's a lot different than retiring from a fortune 500 company. You don't, you know, the, you know, there's, there's more things to think through. It's not all just about you.

[00:48:12] You know, if you're, if you're retired from Eli Lilly, they're sorry to see you go. Maybe you get a great pension. Surely you've saved up quite a bit of money. Uh, you've got a bunch of appreciated Eli Lilly stocks, hopefully. Um, and, and you leave and you, you know, you're replaced, uh, by a younger version of you.

[00:48:34] But when you own a, um, a business, whether that be a correctional, uh, you know, contracting company or manufacturing company or something else. Well, somebody has to step into your role and you have to pick them. Okay. And so they're all kind of thinking through this. And, um, and what I'm amazed by Rob is how thoughtful these people are.

[00:49:02] There's, uh, I wrote the article there's, you know, in, in, there's, there's really, there's five paths. And of course there can be a variation between the different paths, meaning, you know, there can be some hybrid approaches. But what I like about this group is, is that one there, they're for the most part, they all are aware of the paths. They're aware, they're thinking about it well in advance of the time period that they're choosing to exit. A lot of them haven't even chosen to exit yet.

[00:49:31] They just know that they need to have something in place, uh, that's going to have to build towards that eventual thing. And so, um, and so I love working with these people because they're educated. What they do is so, so important. And, um, and there's just so much value that I feel like I can add.

[00:49:50] Now, when they're thinking through this, they're thinking through this, uh, you know, these different paths, it's really dependent upon what's most important to them. Okay. Okay. So here locally, um, you know, there is a, uh, detention contracting company. Uh, DEC is what they're, they call, uh, is what they're, they're called, um, detention equipment contractor.

[00:50:19] And, you know, they've done, they've done a fantastic job with an internal transition because the primary owner's main objective was seeing the business go to year 200. He knows that he's not going to see year 200, but he wants the business to see 200. So his planning reflects that. One of my other dear friends down in, uh, down in Georgia.

[00:50:44] He, um, he wasn't done growing his business and he recognized that in order to do everything, you know, again, talking about fulfilling potential that in order to fulfill the potential that, um, that his company had, he needed to bring in capital. Not to exit, not to give up control, but to grow.

[00:51:10] And so that was a perfect opportunity to bring in the right private equity partner to attempt to grow his business so that he could serve all the people that he was attempting to do, uh, to serve. My friend up in Wisconsin, uh, that's a really natural one. He, um, he has a son that is super smart guy into the business. They want to make it a super clean transition.

[00:51:37] And, um, and so he has a natural air that, you know, that leads him down that path. I've done plenty of interviews with, uh, with others that have looked at ESOPs and, and clearly there's also the, um, there's always the opportunity for one, for one of your competitors to buy, to buy you. So, um, you know, it really, it's interesting.

[00:51:59] It's really depends first and foremost about the client's goals and then, and only then should they choose which path is most, uh, is probably most effective. Mm-hmm. Appreciate you sharing that, man. I, because back to the original point, like it wouldn't even really matter if they're looking for, uh, you know, an ESOP, if they're looking for a sunset exit, you know, if it's a sell and stay situation.

[00:52:23] And the one thing, I mean, the common theme is like, is there at least planning for it? Because I would see the worst situation is, is, Hey, they're not even planning for it. Okay. So they are planning for it from, for the most part where I see, where I see the trip up though, is, is that they are, they are doing their due diligence by going and looking at all of these different options. Okay.

[00:52:53] Let me give you an example. We're, uh, we're, uh, I have clients all over the country in this space. And so we do a lot of zoom meetings. Lawyers are in there and so forth. I see the lawyers come in. I, cause I'm at my computer, I can Google them and see who they are. And I text my client and I said, be careful. The guy to two people to the right of you is an ESOP salesperson.

[00:53:24] I guarantee you that they're going to try and talk you into doing an ESOP. It couldn't have been three minutes later. We really been talking about this and we think you should do an ESOP, blah, blah, blah. Let me tell you something, Rob. An ESOP couldn't be farther from what this client wanted to do. This is the guy that had the natural air. Couldn't wait to, you know, wanted to make a smooth transition, keep the business and the family.

[00:53:50] And so that's where I feel that the trip up is in the planning process that they in, in first and foremost, are beginning with product or concept before they define goals. What, what is it? What is it that I'm actually trying to do? If you tell me what it is that we're actually trying to do and why that's so important to you, guess what?

[00:54:17] Then we can find the right, which one of the five different exit paths or transition paths or some hybrid between the five is most appropriate. I don't care.

[00:54:58] And so where I feel like, again, the trip up is, is that they start with the lawyers. They start with the accountants. It doesn't start that way. Those people come in, you know, guess what? If you're an ESOP salesperson, it's kind of like being a hammer. If you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail. If you're an ESOP salesperson, everything, everybody looks like an ESOP. Okay. Okay.

[00:55:18] So I try to play this neutral role with my clients and sit on the same side of the table as them and say, Hey, based upon what you're trying to do, here's the avenue you should look at. I don't have any skin in the game. We're going to bring in the right resources to take care of this. Yeah. Well said, man. Derek, what, and I've enjoyed this conversation, man. What questions should I be asking here that I'm not asking?

[00:55:44] You know, I think, I think one thing that you didn't ask me that, that I do want to hit on again, and that is, you know, what is it that people don't know about us, wealth managers, that may be, that they might be surprised? And what I would say is, is that, well, I can't speak for everybody. I can only speak for the team that we have here and the people that I've worked with in the industry as a whole is, is that we feel deeply.

[00:56:13] We feel deeply that the good wealth managers typically have a tremendous amount of empathy. And, and what keeps us up at night is not us. It's not our money. It's not the stock market. It's how you're thinking about your money, or how our clients are thinking about their money, how our clients are thinking about the markets. Are they worried?

[00:56:40] We, we are aware of which clients are worried, which clients are concerned. And we, as advisors, we tend to take that on. And it really becomes a, you know, it is kind of the burden of the job. And I've happily taken it on. It's part of what I've signed up for quite a while ago. But it is, it is, it is the thing I don't think people recognize. I don't look at my own money.

[00:57:09] I'm invested right along with my clients. I know how it's doing, you know, from a high level. And yes, two or three, four times a year, I will look at, you know, where are we at from a balance standpoint or whatever. But it's always at the inflection points. Right? It's always at, at the all time highs or, or after we've taken a big hit. I spend the majority of my time thinking about my clients, my clients' money, and even more importantly, how they're thinking about their money.

[00:57:40] Yeah, well said, man. Derek, man, man, I appreciate you, again, taking the time, the insight, sharing that. And yeah, love it, man. Thanks so much. You bet, Rob.

[00:57:50] You're listening to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell.

[00:58:13] To find out more about Dr. Rob, visit his website at drrobbell.com or follow him on Twitter at DrRobBell. And subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of Mental Toughness as soon as it's available. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.

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