Ep. 164 - Owen & Josh Finnerty - The Golf Sock

[00:00:10] Welcome to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes, executives, and expert coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hinge moment. Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

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[00:01:50] I think a good question, too, related to what you do in the mental side, too, is how have sports for us not only impacted how we do business, but how they help us operate day-to-day? Not necessarily our overarching kind of vision, but I think for day-to-day, Josh and I, when it comes to how we operate, I send him a note every night. I'm like, tomorrow, we're going to win the day. We're going to win the day.

[00:02:18] And I honestly think the same thing I say, if I was myself in a situation, I currently play pro soccer as well. I'm a goalkeeper, and I constantly have these kind of two parallel paths of, I want to win the day tomorrow in soccer, and I want to win the day tomorrow with Josh when it comes to business.

[00:02:47] So our guests today on the Mental Toughness podcast, they are twins. Excited about this. I actually have the first time I've had twins on the show, man, but they are owners of the Golf Sock. Our one guest, and I'm going to tell their names, man, it started off, right? Josh and Owen Finnerty. Josh Finnerty went to Caltech, played soccer there. He's the leader in research and design of the Golf Sock. Owen Finnerty played soccer at Michigan and Michigan State, runs the day-to-day operations of the Golf Sock.

[00:03:17] And the Golf Sock, and again, they are not a sponsor of the podcast, but I like having guests on the podcast whose products I endorse. And this is an incredible Golf Sock. The Golf Sock's high-performance socks dedicated to keep you comfortable on the course while looking great, performing your absolute best. Their mission is improve your golf game with a sock designed for the way you play. And we will talk about, I think, how they do that in the sock itself. But, man, excited to have you guys on here, man.

[00:03:46] Owen and Josh, thanks for joining me. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Super excited. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Owen, I want to start with you, man. You start playing. I mean, you guys are Michigan natives. You start playing at Michigan, Big Blue. You make the transfer over to one of the enemies, right? Michigan State. Yeah. I always like to slow bust softball questions, man. What was that transfer like, man? Oh, man. It was incredible.

[00:04:14] I mean, it was definitely a challenge, as you can imagine. But, you know, to put it simply, it was, you know, definitely an interesting and unique experience. You know, being from the state of Michigan, the rivalry is, you know, a big one. So, you know, definitely a change. Turned some heads for sure. And, you know, for me personally, it was an incredible experience. You know, I enjoyed both schools. You know, they were both, you know, incredible programs and amazing coaches and players. But, you know, honestly, just what a unique experience for me. And ended up working out really well. I had a great senior year at Michigan State.

[00:04:44] But, you know, I think that it was something I'm really, really happy I did and got to experience. So, yeah, definitely a positive. No, I love that, man. Not many people can say they played at both, right? Oh, no. Yeah, no. That's a one in a million kind of thing. I mean, especially for athletes. You know, it happens with students. But athletes, it definitely is a unique one. Right. I love it, man. Josh, man, went to, you know, a pretty prestigious academic university at Caltech.

[00:05:10] You know, when I think of like engineering schools, obviously it's Caltech and MIT at the top. You know, when it comes to academics, like even Notre Dame, I mean, they're looking up to you all in terms of academics. So my question is this, man. Like, they're always renowned for never really having sports programs in terms of like basketball and stuff like that, right? I don't know if they've ever had a winning season. What's the relationship like being a student athlete at such a prestigious university there?

[00:05:39] Yeah, that's a great question and some high praise. It was definitely an academics first situation in a lot of ways, always being challenged mentally. And I think the most important part as an athlete there is trying to just find those little times, those spaces where you can just completely turn your brain off and devote yourself to the sport.

[00:06:01] And I think that allowed me actually to excel in my academics just to work hard, you know, in something that wasn't so, you know, math and science. I can get pretty repetitive and boring. So to be able to really pour myself into something that I truly love, I love soccer. I still try and play. I love golf as well. But yeah, to just kind of take my mind away actually really helped me be a better student. But it was very challenging. Totally makes sense, man.

[00:06:29] Like you pour everything into something you love and it actually helps you then more in the day-to-day piece, man. I love it. What are most graduates of like Caltech? What do they, are they going to Silicon Valley? Like where the majority of them go? Yeah, I think a lot in the FANG companies, especially as the focus of Caltech is splitting into a lot of computer science nowadays. So there's, of course, the engineering, the hard sciences.

[00:06:56] But yeah, you know, Apple, Facebook, Google, the big dogs are definitely recruiting hard there. So. Yeah. No, that's awesome, man. Yeah. Well, 2021, I mean, we talk about hinge moments. 2021, you guys walking up 18. One of you wearing crew socks. The other, you know, no show. I'm a no show guy. And the feet are hurting, man. The feet are killing you. Talk to us about what took place next, man. Yeah.

[00:07:24] You know, that's a, Josh and I is so funny looking back, you know, 2021 seems like forever ago. But, you know, it was honestly, you know, Josh and I were playing. We have a background in soccer, as you can tell. And, you know, in soccer, you know, grip socks are a big thing. And, you know, that's kind of where we started to think about a soccer idea for golf. But we didn't really know what it was going to be. And, you know, we're playing golf. One of us is wearing, you know, mid calves in shorts, looks a bit goofy. You know, one of us is wearing no shows.

[00:07:52] They're sliding, you know, past your heel every hole, having to kind of readjust them. And we're like, you know, there's got to be a better solution. Kind of joking. You know, we should make one. You know, it's like, oh, you know, why don't we just kind of do this ourselves? And it's funny enough, like, you know, it kind of turns from a fun idea into a real idea. And we start nerding out on it a bit. You know, Josh is designing it. We're kind of coming up with, you know, ideas online and looking at competitors. And we're like, wait, you know, there's really nobody in this space that, you know, is really tackling this.

[00:08:20] And long story short, we kind of put the grip sock idea from soccer that had such a good, you know, hold on soccer at the moment. And kind of brought it into a sport like golf that we knew really well. And, yeah, that was kind of the start of something cool. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'd love to pile on here. As a golfer, you know, we're all a little bit of gear junkies. You know, you want the coolest, latest and greatest. But socks always seem to be forgotten about.

[00:08:49] And we were so passionate. And, you know, being an engineer, I wanted to just go in and over-engineer a sock that, you know, that seems kind of crazy, right? But just to go in and make something really cool and spice it up in a space that's usually pretty slow to adjust was, like, a so clear niche for us to go and attack. Yeah. The two facets I love, man. One, the polypropylene. I think it's an incredible fabric to have, right? It whisks that moisture away.

[00:09:19] And then the other part, and that's the part where if it's like, okay, well, how can a sock improve performance? And that's where the gripper really does that, man. I run in these socks as well. Was that, I guess, when it came to, like, the grip, is that what part, that idea phase, is that what you really kind of grasped onto? It's like, hey, this could really be something that we take moving forward? Yeah, absolutely.

[00:09:44] It was kind of our X factor going in of, like, hey, you know, people make good socks-ish. You know, we obviously one-upped them, but the grip sock was kind of our way to be different and attention-grabbing in a space that's very hard to do that. So, yeah, I think that was, first of all, our clear X factor going in. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. And that took a lot of time as, you know, we were a little naive in the beginning to, oh, you know, let's just put this together.

[00:10:13] And it took a long time. Our development kind of process took us like eight months just from trying to figure out the, you know, sending samples back and forth. And, oh, you know, that silicone would break down too fast. We have to make it a little bit more durable, but that's not comfortable. So we have to kind of dial it back. So it was kind of a really fun kind of process of going too far and then coming back. And then, oh, like, you know, this worked and we got feedback. I mean, send it up to people to, you know, try out.

[00:10:40] And, you know, the grip, once we locked that in, we felt really, really good about, you know, where we were at. Hey, good looking.

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[00:11:36] On this journey then, so you go from idea phase, you're excited, and this becomes real. I mean, and then with any kind of entrepreneur, I mean, you start taking the risk, right? I mean, you've obviously done the research. And the first, I mean, the first year, it didn't start off too well, did it? No, the first year was a real learning experience for Josh and I. And as most entrepreneurs who have been through it or want to go through it might find out is that, you know,

[00:12:03] the first year of your journey is not as easy and as, you know, fun as you might, you know, quotes, air quotes, fun as you might think it will be, you know, it's definitely a learning experience and a grind. And Josh and I, you know, just kind of put our heads down and started to learn. And, you know, the first year really, really helped us kind of figure out our direction. And, you know, we got our feet, you know, on the ground and really, really got into, you know, what it would take to grow this. It was pretty cool experience.

[00:12:33] Yeah, very, very cool experience. I kind of want to keep going when you said learn, you know, I think that's what it was really all about. We didn't have a ton of money being college students. So, you know, taking it slow and really making sure that we, first of all, had the best product that we could possibly think of was very important to us. And then second of all, not just, you know, throwing money at it and hoping it sticks. We really wanted to be confident through all of our steps in the journey.

[00:12:59] So I think starting slow while it was painful, it was so, so important to who we are now. When, when you started off, and just correct me if I'm wrong, I mean, you got 3000 pairs of socks, right? I mean, you're, you're, you're doing the fulfillment through everything. I often say like faith isn't faith until it's all you've got. When you have that moment, where was the confidence level? Yeah, that's a great question.

[00:13:27] You know, the beginning, I think the confidence is really high because, you know, we thought, hey, we figured this out. And, you know, definitely took a dip, you know, as we started to get into it, we're like, wait, you know, we took a step back and maybe we don't know as much as we think we do. And that was definitely a humbling experience, you know, being high performers and wanting to be the best. It was, you know, wait, we might have to take a step back and, and, and, you know, admit that we're not, you know, perfect at this.

[00:13:53] And I think once Josh and I understood that, hey, we're learning, we're not supposed to be the best at this right away. You know, our confidence started to grow. So, so I think it started high, went down. And then as you've been learning and going, it's definitely been growing and growing, which has been cool. Yeah, very cool. And we had faith, you know, I like that you say that. That's a really good saying. Faith is kind of the last thing that you can hold on to. We had a little bit of that moment when we got into March of last year.

[00:14:24] We didn't really know what our plan was going to be, if we had, you know, a chance to reorder or not. We're coming down to our inventory numbers where we're like having to make a decision. And, you know, I had faith in Owen and I had faith in the product and ultimately faith in our company. And I think that's kind of where we said, all right, let's, let's double down. Let's try and sell through this last little bit of inventory and really spike up some volume and see if we can get aggressive.

[00:14:51] And, yeah, that faith, meeting confidence kind of just at that last chance was kind of what propelled us into doubling down, tripling down really, and reordering in a large way coming into this year. No, it's awesome, man. When, and you all have listened to other podcasts that you've had and I guess let's talk about like the mental toughness of the entrepreneur and the route that you guys have been on.

[00:15:20] Like, can you delve before we get into consistency part? Because I think consistency is probably the most difficult mental skill that there is. Let's, let's delve a little bit further into that confidence. Like we always play our best when we're going to be confident and, you know, confidence is, is focused. But talk to us a little bit about like what, what, that journey of the test of confidence yet knowing that you still have to believe in yourself and believe in the product and believe in each other. Like walk us, walk us down that path a little bit further.

[00:15:51] Yeah, that's a great question. Yeah. And I can start Josh. I'm, you know, I think the, when the first thing, you know, that popped out when you said that for me was with Josh and I being, you know, so close our whole lives and growing up. Like we were twins where we don't have any other siblings. You know, we were kind of always doing everything together. And when it came to business, I think our trust in each other and our kind of belief in each other really kept us going when other people would say, yeah, maybe not.

[00:16:20] You know, you know, we were trying to make a sock for golf with, you know, this idea. And it took a lot of self-confidence. And, you know, for Josh and I, I think we leaned on each other a lot. And, you know, our dad has been a huge kind of mentor for us as well. You know, just having that kind of internal confidence first, knowing that, hey, we got this, I think was a huge, huge piece. Because without that, I don't think we could have made the big steps that we did.

[00:16:47] And I think following that, you know, we were able and willing to kind of take risks because we know we trust each other. Like with the trust there, we could take risks and say, hey, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work, you know. So I think that trust in each other and our own belief was the start of it all. But Josh, you can elaborate on that a little bit. But yeah, no, absolutely. That's a huge thing when you can say, you know, am I crazy right now? Like, is this ridiculous to think this?

[00:17:11] If you can gut check with someone that you really know at a deep level and you trust them, it goes miles for my confidence, at least. And on top of that, when you have such confidence in your product, just holding that in my hands and feeling those prototypes and going to bed at night, knowing that we had something that I just wanted to get out into the world and knowing that when people got their hands on it, they would want it and they would like it and they would love it just as much as we did.

[00:17:41] And that was really big for us to keep building on and say, no, you know, it's worth it to keep putting in that hard work because we have something here. And, you know, I know Owen's not going to quit on it. I don't want to quit on it either. So, yeah. It's awesome, man. It's awesome. Yeah. That real source of confidence, knowing that you've got a product that can help people. That's a good product.

[00:18:05] And getting back to that, like before the consistency piece, I mean, like people will say you don't go in business with friends or family. And, but in this relationship, it's different. Like you guys grew up together, you're doing everything together. So, and Owen, like, I mean, you even more of like, hey man, big ideas, vision, Josh, and more of like the details, the day-to-day. So, you guys really complement each other.

[00:18:28] But like how well knowing you guys, and you've already mentioned it, but the trust you had in one another growing up together, doing everything together. How, I mean, that became an asset for you guys. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think it still definitely is. Just like, you know, as we move forward, like that's going to be number one, obviously our product and what we've built. But, you know, the real foundation is, is, you know, us being so close and behind the brand.

[00:18:56] It really, really drives everything we do. You know, we love to, you know, get on calls and discuss and brainstorm and, you know, just be brothers and have that business as kind of our baby. And, you know, really just to have fun with it. Like we really genuinely enjoy working together and working on this product. Because number one, like Josh said, like when you try the product, feel the product, and we see how many people love the product. It's like that juices us up. We're like, let's go.

[00:19:24] Like, and we feel like from an athlete standpoint, like we're a team and we're going to go, you know, we're going to go give it all we got. So, like you said, it just kind of motivates us. I think that kind of, we bounce off each other really well. Like I'm a, you know, kind of big thinker. I like to kind of dream big and think big. And Josh will bring me back and say, hey, like this is what's happening tonight and tomorrow. You know, it kind of brings it back to the earth. And you need both of those things, you know. And I think that that's why we kind of were able to kind of be that team. And we love it. We absolutely love it.

[00:19:54] Yeah, we totally broke the rule. You know, people say don't get into business with people that you're close with. But yeah, I don't think you could break it any more than we have. And I really think it's been a huge success piece in our company because I think Owen says this maybe every day, honestly. But like, hey, I'm just so happy that, you know, the business aside that we're doing this together. Like I wouldn't really want to do something like this if you weren't involved in it.

[00:20:22] And that's been really big and just kind of keeping us going. So like even if we're not making a ton of money at first, you know, it wasn't big. We weren't finding as much success as we thought we would have. Or at least we're in it together. You know, we're still doing it together. And that made it like fun and helped us pour so much more into it. So absolutely. No, that's awesome, man. Well said, man. Well said. You guys even ham and egg this interview well, man. Yeah, it's so funny.

[00:20:52] Owen is definitely the big idea guy. He'll dream for me even, you know, like, oh, man, I can't wait until you're doing this and that. And sometimes it's hard to look up. You know, I struggle to dream that far and big and look into the future. So having him kind of guide it and then I narrow it down is so fun. I love that. I love that he has his strength and I have mine. So for sure. Yeah.

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[00:21:48] If you use the code DRB15, you get 50% off or use the link below. Stamina Pro. The life lessons. We hear this all the time, right? Like sports teaches life lessons, which inherently isn't true, right? Like sport teaches whatever we want it to teach. If you have a coach that emphasizes discipline and hard work and communication, especially out there on the pitch, then that's what it is going to teach, right?

[00:22:16] If you have a coach that just win, I don't care about any team dynamics or what's going on, but just win, then that's what it's going to kind of reinforce. But if you have a coach that really emphasizes these life lessons, such as consistency and discipline, I was hoping you could talk about, you know, I was never the athlete that was consistent.

[00:22:41] I was an all or nothing athlete, meaning I was Tom Cruise or I was Adam Sandler. Like there was no consistency at all in the performance. And I think consistency, like anybody can get hot for a day. Anybody can have a great game. But to keep showing up with the energy and enthusiasm when things aren't going well, can you talk about like how that life lesson has really, you know, melted into the business?

[00:23:12] Yeah. Yeah, that's a great, that's a great question. And I think that as we've gone more and more into this business, we've seen that come out more and more. We've been able to kind of reflect and say, wow, that was, you know, sports like really, really helped us, you know, in a lot of moments that weren't as easy. And, you know, for us, like you, we kind of already talked about the first two or three years of the company was a lot of that, like showing up when the results necessarily weren't there.

[00:23:40] It was, hey, like, you know, we're still meeting, we're still discussing about next steps. We're still, you know, talking about, you know, how we're going to make the product better when we didn't even know what the next, you know, month or two was going to look like for us. So it was more just showing up every day and saying, hey, you know, we believe in this, even if, you know, sometimes we had to fake it a little bit, you know, we're going to bring the confidence, bring the kind of consistency of effort. And, you know, we grew up with the saying in our family, it's 100% effort, 100% of the time.

[00:24:08] And I think that that's a perfect example of just, you know, giving it everything, even when the results might not be showing it. So then when the results end up coming, it's like, wait, this is a lot easier than, you know, I thought. I wouldn't say easy, but it's definitely a lot easier when, you know, when you're seeing results from your effort. But long story, I think it's like more about the day to day and bring what you bring to the table, you know, what you can control. Greg Harden said it great.

[00:24:33] You know, it's control to controllables, you know, and, you know, he was, you know, I think being a Michigan athlete, I saw a lot about him and RIP to him as well, being a great mental coach. But, you know, a lot of his sayings and stuff is, you know, just control what you can control. And Tom Brady talks a lot about that, too. I can go kind of far into that. But, you know, it's really, really about what you bring. And I love that. I think that that's just so controllable. And it helps Josh and I really just understand that there's a lot of things in this world you can't really, you know, control between variants and all this stuff.

[00:25:03] But if you can kind of bring our stuff to the table every day, you know, we'll be all right. So I think that's kind of what keeps us grounded. Yeah. I mean, it's hard, you know, when you're always searching for and in a world where results are super prioritized, when you're not getting consistent results or you're not seeing the reward frequently, it's hard to keep putting in the effort. I had a soccer coach at Caltech.

[00:25:31] I had a few, but my favorite, if I don't know if I'm allowed to say that, but Duncan Gillis, who coached my last couple of years at Caltech, he leaned heavily on consistency and really baked into our team culture. And I think a lot of his messages helped me learn that, you know, we're always going to be the David in the David and Goliath battle of a lot of those powerhouse D3 teams in the SkyAC.

[00:26:01] And it hurts to get beat down by those, you know, one and two seeded guys that are winning D3 titles when we're a thousand student, you know, academic school. But when you show up and you put in the work, those losses are still going to hurt, but you're getting closer to the wins. And when you get, you know, a 500 season at Caltech, that feels pretty damn good. And it just, it doesn't come from the flashy moments.

[00:26:28] It comes from grinding for the ties and you squeak out a win here and you get an upset there. So yeah, consistency is huge, of course, and especially in golf. But then when you turn it over to business, when you're not getting the results, you just got to keep going back to the drawing board and keep putting in the effort. Cause yeah, you're not going to see a win every day. No, I love that, man.

[00:26:53] I often say in our house, like some battles are worth fighting, even if you lose, meaning there's going to be shots that you miss, but are you willing to take the shot? Like, I think going down the journey of entrepreneurship, especially with, with your brother developing something, a product that's, that's incredible, can add value. Like, look, man, some battles are worth fighting, even if you lose knowing that that's the only way that you can win anyway, you know? And it's, but I'm a quote honk, man.

[00:27:21] So like more said than, than done, but you guys are doing it. That's why you guys are on the podcast and I'm glad to get you guys in the, you know, obviously early stages with the Owen. Oh, and you got to, I mean, you throw some, some Michigan royalty around and staff. You got to throw like a Kirk cousins reference in there too. I know. I know.

[00:27:42] No, it's funny because both schools have such icons in sports, you know, there's so many go down the list, you know, you know, between Izzo and, you know, obviously at Michigan state and, you know, Michigan has tons, you know, with now with Jim Harbaugh and what he was able to do.

[00:27:56] So there's plenty of examples that I've heard over the years with these guys, but, you know, going back to that, I will give Michigan state with Izzo, the one crazy and great thing that he was able to do is not only in basketball, how much he inspired athletics and every athletic program and how much they kind of followed his beliefs. And that was really cool to see. I know that's a lot of tangent, but giving Michigan state their credit there.

[00:28:18] He was all about the kind of energy and consistency and, and, you know, he's, his whole career is built on getting back to the final four and all this stuff every year in March. And it's like, why is that? And all year they're just grinding consistently, no matter what the results, they know they're kind of objective. And Michigan state is a huge, huge about grit and determinations. I definitely picked that up being there. Want to listen to your favorite music, but you're sick of all the commercial interruptions and negative news today.

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[00:29:09] You know, let's just say more recent, like in the past year of, of your journey in the, in the company. Yeah. We got to think on that one. I get it. Yeah. I might have to have to stew for a second. I would say one. Josh, are you starting this one? Josh is starting this one. Okay. Yeah. I wasn't ready for it, but we got it. Yeah.

[00:29:34] Um, no, I think one, one lesson that I've learned, um, it sounds kind of corny, but just to like really believe in your skills, even when you don't feel like you're an expert. So like, even though we don't know everything, just know that you know enough to make good decisions and trust who you are to follow your internal compass and your gut.

[00:30:02] Um, and don't get lost just because you feel like, you know, you're a beginner or just because you don't feel like you measure up to the greats. Um, I couldn't really give you a great hard evidence, uh, example there, but just to, to trust your gut really. Um, because you know, we worked hard on this and we know more about the golf sock than anybody else, you know, we'd been in it.

[00:30:28] And so taking advice is one thing, but you know, trust yourself first. Yeah. And honestly, I'll kind of go a little bit off that, but I liked what you said earlier in the podcast about kind of the hinge moment and, you know, our kind of March, Josh touching it briefly March of last year, we were kind of in this up in the air situation. We didn't know where we wanted to take the company and we kind of just took a risk. We took a shot. We kind of put up our last shot, as you would say in sports tournament and it worked.

[00:31:00] And basically we bet on ourselves. And I think what Josh is trying to say there is we didn't know the right answer. You know, we didn't have it, you know, there wasn't some path to follow, but you know, we kind of just were willing to take the risk on the fact that and knowing that we didn't know the answer. And it paid off and looking back, like that was a huge moment in our company. And I think that, you know, since then we've kind of realized like taking the risk is kind of necessary. Like if you don't take the shots, you can't make them.

[00:31:26] And that's super cliche, but like we heaved up a half quarter and we made it. So like, if, you know, we can do that, like it gave us some confidence. Like, you know, we're, you know, as we're kind of going, we're like more comfortable with, you know, doing riskier things. And obviously they're calculated, but, you know, we're like, it's okay if we fail. Like we were kind of already proved that we can succeed from this kind of way of just pushing the limits and pushing the limits.

[00:31:50] And I've learned, I think over the last year to have that kind of confidence that, you know, for anything to pay off, you kind of need to take that risk, you know, risk it a little bit. So we've gotten a little more comfortable with that. I think in the beginning we were pretty reserved and, you know, as normal people are, you're reserved. You don't know what you're doing. So you feel a bit guarded, but, you know, I think as we've gone, we've learned a lot to kind of let that go. So that's been pretty, a pretty big changing point. Yeah. Thanks for, thanks for building on that one. I know I went for it.

[00:32:20] I'll go second. I like that. I'll go third. Yeah. The hinge, man, like, you know, no matter how bad your situation is, no matter how bleak an outcome, look, it only takes one, right? It takes, it takes one corner kick, man. One shot to go in, you know, one catch of the ball. It takes one, you know, one opportunity, one person to connect who you are with who you're going to become, man. And that's, that's where I've always kind of get behind that. No matter how bad it is, but it just takes one turns. It turns everything around. Yeah. I don't know about that.

[00:32:50] Fellas, what question, and each of you, but what question should I be asking that I'm not asking? Well, it depends. Should we be asking about, you know, who we are or maybe the company or the product? You know, I think I could probably come up with a few, but. Do it, Josh. I'm with you. Well, this is your opportunity for like mic drop, you know? Yeah, sure. Great.

[00:33:19] Well, I think maybe something you should be asking us is what our plans are. If we see this as like a short term thing, a flash in the pan or, you know, who we are. Are we just socks? Kind of like, what's our essence behind the golf sock? You know, and if I had to answer that, I would say we're really building on this thing just as the golf sock.

[00:33:46] We're going to make a little bit of, I don't want to say an empire, but we are twin fin innovation. So behind the golf sock, you know, we want to do maybe wear the pickleball sock. You mentioned that you run in these. We really made a great sock for whatever you want to do. And we're really trying to push the limits and expand on, you know, I think we have something great here. So can we get outside of golf? Can we apply it in different areas? Can we make some adjustments?

[00:34:15] You know, get into women's and juniors and maybe warm stuff. I don't know, but I think the sky is the limit for us. And I think behind the golf sock, I'm excited to keep working with Owen on more projects, developing more ideas, and really just growing through all the great connections that we've made so far as well. Yeah.

[00:34:36] And to go on that before I asked my question, I think with that, you know, Josh and I are really, really excited about growing this into something that's, you know, going to change the game. You know, staying in golf right now, we've seen not only do we see a great product, but we see a great impact we can make with our product. You know, we like we see a lot of people and top players that use our product and give us immediate feedback. Like this is incredible.

[00:35:01] Like this, this really changed kind of as much as a sock can change the way that I'm playing it is. And that for us juices us up. Like, you know, golf is a crazy, like, you know, as you guys or your audience might know, you know, 1% in golf is massive. You know, if you can increase your swing speed, you can increase your balance, you can have, you know, be more comfortable on the last three holes. Like these are huge kind of impacts, even if they seem small.

[00:35:29] So, you know, as sports minded people, Josh and I love that kind of like, can we help you be 1, 2, 5% better? Like that's kind of our juice. So as we develop more and we kind of push the limits, like that's always worth thinking about. Like, can the people that wear our socks, like feel that impact? Because like, if we know they're feeling that impact, like money aside, everything else aside, like that is, that's what's the difference maker. So, you know, that's kind of what keeps us on the front foot, like always looking to improve.

[00:35:57] Like we've already done a 2.0, you know, we're already designing our next kind of models. So, you know, that's kind of what going on with Josh said, that kind of what we're looking forward to doing. And yeah. Did you have another question? I'll ask. Yeah, I can ask kind of a different lens of a question too, to kind of bounce in a different area.

[00:36:17] But, you know, I think a good question too, related to what you do in the mental side too, is, you know, how have sports for us not only impacted kind of like how we do business, but, you know, how they kind of help us operate day to day. You know, not necessarily our, you know, our overarching kind of vision, but, you know, I think for day to day, Josh and I, when it comes to, you know, how we operate, like I send him a note, like every night. I'm like tomorrow, like we're going to win the day, like we're going to win the day.

[00:36:46] And I honestly think the same thing I say, if I was myself in a situation, I currently play pro soccer as well. I'm a goalkeeper. And I constantly have these kind of two parallel paths of, I want to win the day tomorrow in soccer and I want to win the day tomorrow with Josh when it comes to business. And I literally, to this day, every day, I think about those two things in a parallel path. And that's awesome to me like that.

[00:37:10] I love that you can make entrepreneurship so competitive, even if there's no one to compete against, you know, it's kind of just like win the day tomorrow. And I think without the sports background, I wouldn't be able to have that lens personally. And I don't think Josh would either because I go to practice and I think, oh my gosh, like I'm going to win tomorrow, no matter what the outcome. And then I get home and I think, all right, now it's time to continue to win the day. But I think we've kind of morphed this win the day thing into our kind of motto.

[00:37:37] And I just, that gets us kind of, it gets me juiced. I haven't talked about it for a while, but it just makes it so much more competitive and entertaining for Josh and I just to go win. So yeah, it's a long winded, but it's kind of, it just makes it so fun. It's so fun for us. So true. It's so true. Owen, you totally hit that on the head. We've tried to develop this as like a team, you know, more than a company. It feels like we're really building ourselves.

[00:38:05] And then that allows us to create the best business that we can. Just pouring into, you know, communication and vision and hard work and kind of just instilling this within ourselves has been so fun. And it's really been amazing. We've learned so much. And I think it's allowed us to create something that's truly special. And I really, I mean, I wear them every day. I love it. I just love being a part of the golf sock because I think it's incredible.

[00:38:33] You know, who knew that socks could, could shake up golf like they have, especially, you know, for something that seems so small. It's, it can be pretty big. Man. I love it. You guys crushed the episode, man. I'll, I always say like, everyone's an athlete. Our office is just different because we're competing against the most difficult opponent. That's ourselves. You know, so even if I run into people like, no, no, no, I'm not an athlete. It's, oh, well, you don't compete then. Right.

[00:39:02] Like, so, I mean, I get it. Some people are into performing arts and all that, but one way or another, man, we're always competing against ourselves. And that's the most difficult opponent there is, man. So, um, obviously we're going to put the links on there, but, um, thank you guys for taking the time and, um, and coming on the show, man. I really appreciate it. No, thank you for having us. It was a blast. And, you know, we honestly are just looking forward to what's next for us. And, you know, we, we really appreciate the opportunity to kind of share our story. Yeah. Thank you for having us on.

[00:39:32] We really appreciate the time. Some pretty high level questions and always love to talk about the golf socks.

[00:39:37] So mental toughness with Dr. Rob Bell.

[00:40:02] To find out more about Dr. Rob, visit his website at drrobbell.com or follow him on Twitter at Dr. Rob Bell. And subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of mental toughness as soon as it's available. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you next time.