Ep. 156 - Joe Skovron - How To Win At Augusta National

[00:00:11] Dr. Rob Bell, Dr. Rob Skovron-Pathletes, Executive, and Expert Coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hinge moment. Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:38] Patience is interesting to me because you hear Jack talk about it, you hear so many guys talk about it, but there's like a, I think there's a line there of patience, right, for a golfer, because if you're just always patient, then, you know, sometimes it might not happen.

[00:00:54] Some of those guys are a little impatient when they make things happen, but I think it's a big deal in certain tournaments. You know, you get to certain conditions, you know, like what I was talking about at Augusta, you know, that would be discipline or patience of like, hey, I'm going to keep executing the game plan and it's going to happen, right?

[00:01:17] So, um, the harder the conditions, the more the golf course requires discipline. I think patience is a big deal. But then there's sometimes if, if you're too patient out there 23 under bars winning, like sometimes you just got to put the foot on the gas and go.

[00:01:32] So I guess it kind of depends on how you define patience. Um, but I think over the long term of your career, I think patience and getting better and getting what you want. And, you know, just like anything, like what you put into it in the process and everything, the patience for the results, I think is a big deal.

[00:01:52] Because otherwise you might go start searching for things that aren't going to make you better or whatever. And it's just kind of taking it day by day and knowing, hey, I'm in the right path. It might not be tomorrow, might not be next month, but wait, six, nine months when it shows up, it's going to show up.

[00:02:07] You hear Kobe talk about it all the time, right? When you see all the stuff that he said.

[00:02:27] Our guest today on the mental toughness podcast is a repeat guest, a good friend of mine. We've been friends for a long time out there on tour back when he was playing.

[00:02:37] He was caddy for Ricky Fowler for 13 seasons. He's caddied over 50 major events. He caddied for Tom Kin for over a season, a couple wins, president cup there as well.

[00:02:49] And then is now the current caddy for Lickvig, Oberg. Our guest today, again, good friend. Glad to have him here. Joe Skoburn, my man, Joe. Thanks for joining us, bud.

[00:03:02] What's up, Slash? How we doing?

[00:03:04] Luda. That'd be a good name for him, wouldn't it?

[00:03:08] Yeah, Luda. I like that one. That's one of my favorite ones. Doesn't get used a lot, but it's one of my favorite ones.

[00:03:14] Should we even share that story about how Slash came up, man?

[00:03:19] It's a tough one, man. That was an old one, bud.

[00:03:21] Yeah, you've got a better memory than me. I don't even know if I remember how it came up.

[00:03:27] It must have had to do with some kind of athlete and somebody. It was something.

[00:03:31] Well, it was the original Slash, Cordell Stewart.

[00:03:34] Slash, right? Yeah. And what was the deal?

[00:03:36] So he was playing in that Pro-Am down in Greenville.

[00:03:39] Yeah.

[00:03:40] And it was kind of that joke. It was like, oh, Cordell, man, don't you remember that game?

[00:03:45] Like when you threw that Hail Mary at, what would we say, at Northwestern?

[00:03:52] No, no, no. It was Michigan.

[00:03:55] No, no, no. It was Northwestern, man. I was there.

[00:03:58] No, no, no, no.

[00:04:00] So then it just kind of stuck, man. You and Brendan Steele kind of said.

[00:04:03] That's right. We started calling you Slash. Yeah.

[00:04:06] Yeah.

[00:04:08] I've just called you Slash since I couldn't remember why.

[00:04:11] Yeah.

[00:04:14] Huge Chargers fan, man. I want to start with this.

[00:04:16] So being a lightning bolt fan and what was it like for you then when they were San Diego and then they went to like L.A.?

[00:04:27] Like talk to us just to kind of about that transition, like emotionally that you had to do.

[00:04:32] So it sounds ridiculous because, you know, you're a fan of a sport.

[00:04:35] You got nothing to do with the outcome.

[00:04:37] But I grew up diehard Charger fan going to every game.

[00:04:41] It was just part of my family.

[00:04:42] It was my dad and I's thing.

[00:04:44] We had that in golf and yeah, when your city loses a team, like it's a big deal, you know?

[00:04:52] And so you kind of feel betrayed and disappointed and all these different things.

[00:04:56] And I actually, that off season was like, man, am I going to get another team?

[00:05:01] What am I going to do?

[00:05:01] You know, the whole thing.

[00:05:03] And then when Philip Rivers put on the lightning bolts up in L.A.

[00:05:07] and that little soccer stadium, I was still all in and I've been all in since.

[00:05:11] But I won't buy anything that says L.A. on it.

[00:05:14] I won't wear anything that says L.A.

[00:05:15] It has to just be Chargers or San Diego Chargers.

[00:05:18] Yeah.

[00:05:19] I dig that, man.

[00:05:20] I mean, you know, my team, Washington, obviously they switched to Commanders.

[00:05:24] But I have all Redskins stuff, you know what I mean?

[00:05:26] I'm not buying anything if it says Washington on it.

[00:05:30] But I mean, did you, so like as a fan though, I mean, are you just still diehard?

[00:05:36] I mean, obviously, I mean, just still root for him.

[00:05:38] It didn't change that much.

[00:05:38] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:05:40] Still diehard.

[00:05:41] It's just kind of in there.

[00:05:42] You know, I wasn't sure that first game after they moved it would be the same.

[00:05:45] And it was.

[00:05:46] And it's like, like I said, it's one of my dad and I's things.

[00:05:49] You know, he's moved to Scottsdale the last couple of years.

[00:05:51] So if I'm home, we watch every game together.

[00:05:53] I won't go out and watch the game or do anything.

[00:05:55] It's just with him.

[00:05:56] And it's just kind of like one of our bonding things.

[00:05:59] And yeah, we're all in and we're excited about Jim Harbaugh.

[00:06:04] So, and I think that's one of the pieces like we'll get into is the power of leadership.

[00:06:08] Like when he was a hire, we both, we both agreed.

[00:06:10] So man, it's a great hire, right?

[00:06:12] Cause he has that it factor.

[00:06:14] I think what the charters are right now, I think they could be what the lions were last year.

[00:06:18] Like just show that hope.

[00:06:19] Like, I don't think they're going to win it this year, obviously, but I think, you know,

[00:06:23] coming down the stretch here, depending on how that goes, but I think they're representative

[00:06:26] of what the lions were last year and a team of like, wow, like they could be really good.

[00:06:31] I fully agree.

[00:06:32] I think you see a lot of the similarities with GM coach, rebuilding the organization,

[00:06:38] getting the guys that fit the culture, all those kinds of things.

[00:06:41] And you kind of see the first step, but they've only had one off season and you get another

[00:06:45] off season, another draft, more free agents, all the guys that you need.

[00:06:50] And we've got a quarterback in place that, you know, can really play probably a top five,

[00:06:55] maybe a top three guys.

[00:06:56] So yeah, I think it's, that's a great comparison.

[00:07:00] Nice man.

[00:07:01] Thanks bud.

[00:07:06] Um, I like, I've had Nick Hardwick on the podcast, man, obviously he's coaching with them

[00:07:11] now and he's, uh, um, he's fantastic.

[00:07:15] Well, who, who was like your favorite charger of all time?

[00:07:17] Phillip Rivers.

[00:07:18] No doubt about it.

[00:07:20] Yeah.

[00:07:20] Phillip Rivers is my guy.

[00:07:21] So I liked him.

[00:07:23] I liked him.

[00:07:23] I liked him coming out of NC state.

[00:07:25] Why was he like your favorite?

[00:07:27] So I actually didn't like him his first year.

[00:07:30] Cause it was breeze was still there and I was a breeze guy and just kind of like, you

[00:07:36] know, I'm like, whatever, why'd we draft this guy?

[00:07:38] What are we doing?

[00:07:38] That whole thing.

[00:07:39] And then when you saw him get out there, I just thought he represented everything football's

[00:07:42] about.

[00:07:43] Just like all of his teammates.

[00:07:45] I'm sure Nick said it.

[00:07:46] Everybody I've ever talked to that played with him, wanting to run through a wall for him.

[00:07:49] They loved him.

[00:07:50] He put everything out there and yeah, he didn't win a big one.

[00:07:53] You know, you could criticize some things, some of the, you know, aggressive mistakes

[00:07:57] and things like that.

[00:07:58] But he just, I mean, he played an AFC championship game with a torn ACL and it says enough about

[00:08:02] him right there, you know?

[00:08:03] So, uh, I just loved everything he represented.

[00:08:08] When I use this example in terms of like, um, cause we all remember like when Tracy gray,

[00:08:14] trace McGray was playing basketball and he kind of got hurt.

[00:08:17] Like he was never the same, right?

[00:08:18] Like, I mean, he wouldn't, he was a shell of them for himself and he was a dog.

[00:08:22] Like when LaDainian Tomlinson, like when he started, cause I mean, he was always the number

[00:08:28] one draft pick on every type of fantasy that there was, right.

[00:08:31] It was like, there's nobody else.

[00:08:33] And when he started to fade just a little bit in terms of his athleticism, he dropped

[00:08:39] hard, man.

[00:08:42] Yeah.

[00:08:42] I mean, he went to the jets, you know, he was still pretty good.

[00:08:45] You know, he was good the whole time for us.

[00:08:48] Um, you know, I think, I don't know what, I can't remember what it was, if it was a contract

[00:08:52] speed or what it was, why I ended up leaving.

[00:08:55] So, um, yeah, I mean, I was a big LT guy as well.

[00:08:59] And, you know, I saw him break the record.

[00:09:01] Everything.

[00:09:05] There's a Phillip Barker in the background, right?

[00:09:07] Yeah.

[00:09:07] That's Phillip.

[00:09:08] Somebody happened to come to the door while we're doing this.

[00:09:12] So I don't know if we're going to have to put a pause on here.

[00:09:17] Um, well, I mean, in terms of like your career, man, getting in there, I mean, again, we've

[00:09:22] known each other.

[00:09:23] I was, I was there with you in that very first event you caddied for Ricky Fowler.

[00:09:27] It was kind of a hinge moment.

[00:09:34] And that first event that you caddied for Ricky, like that was a hinge moment for you

[00:09:40] because I even said in the old podcast, it was like, you were actually going to caddy

[00:09:44] for Brendan Steele that event, but you were college coaching and pick us up from there, man.

[00:09:48] And walk us through, cause then again, that became life changing.

[00:09:50] Yeah, it was kind of wild.

[00:09:52] Uh, I did some events for Brendan.

[00:09:54] I wasn't a full-time caddy.

[00:09:56] We had played mini tours together, growing up together, everything.

[00:09:59] So I would just go out there with him here and then.

[00:10:02] And I was coaching college golf, um, where I played D3 school, university of Laverne.

[00:10:06] And I wasn't going to work that Ohio state event.

[00:10:10] Um, I had something else planned.

[00:10:12] And like I said, I wasn't a caddy.

[00:10:14] So it was like, Hey, I can't do that week.

[00:10:15] I'll do another one, whatever.

[00:10:17] And then Ricky called me and it was like basically a job interview.

[00:10:23] Like, Hey, I'm going to turn pro in the fall.

[00:10:26] Like haven't found anybody when I'm at my starts.

[00:10:28] Can you come out with me?

[00:10:29] So I called Brendan and said, Hey man, I know I said, I couldn't do this event.

[00:10:33] You know, this is what's going on.

[00:10:35] And he's like, yeah, go do it.

[00:10:36] You know, he was awesome about it.

[00:10:37] And, you know, Rick was the number one hand in the world, the whole deal and lost in a

[00:10:42] playoff, um, bogeyed the 72nd hole, I believe.

[00:10:45] And we lost in a playoff and, you know, but came close and the week went really well.

[00:10:50] And it turned into 13 years, you know, working for him and now 15 years out there.

[00:10:54] So, yeah.

[00:10:56] No, I love it, man.

[00:10:56] And that's what people don't like even know.

[00:10:58] Like Ricky looked up to you growing up because you were the man, like you were the golfer.

[00:11:04] I mean, talk to us about like, I mean, when you were playing as a junior, I mean, would

[00:11:10] you finish?

[00:11:11] I mean, you finished top 10 in worlds or was that number one in worlds?

[00:11:14] Like, would you, I mean, you were, you were.

[00:11:15] Yeah.

[00:11:16] I mean, I had a lot of success at a young age, you know, one of those kids that kind

[00:11:20] of got it quick and yeah, I finished six, the junior world.

[00:11:23] I won a ton of junior golf tournaments, but you know, we always joke around that I peaked

[00:11:26] maybe 12 or 14, somewhere in there.

[00:11:31] So, you know, but yeah, I had a lot of success at that age and he was a lot younger than me,

[00:11:35] but then, you know, I wasn't even close to the level he was by the time he got to high

[00:11:40] school and everything else, everything that I did, he shattered.

[00:11:43] And, you know, all the younger guys, they were just better and better and better as it

[00:11:47] came up.

[00:11:48] But so that's how I developed my relationship with him.

[00:11:50] Yeah.

[00:11:51] You know, when all those schools and take a step back, like when all those schools are

[00:11:55] looking at you, when you were tearing it up, what would you have done different at that

[00:12:00] time as a junior golfer?

[00:12:02] No one, obviously what you know now, I mean, you probably wouldn't have changed anything,

[00:12:06] but what would you have done different?

[00:12:08] Yeah.

[00:12:09] For golf specifically, not for my life.

[00:12:11] Yeah.

[00:12:12] Probably two things.

[00:12:13] I probably wouldn't have gone down the football road as much as I did.

[00:12:17] I think, you know, throwing a couple hundred passes a day and putting all that time into

[00:12:23] football, not playing competition.

[00:12:26] You know, I even played basketball my senior year.

[00:12:28] So you're taking a while off from golf while these other guys are, you know, in California,

[00:12:33] everybody's playing year round.

[00:12:35] I thought it was good for my full development as a person and all the other things and for

[00:12:41] my high school experience and all those things.

[00:12:42] But for, as a golfer, like it probably wasn't the best move.

[00:12:46] And then some of the mechanics that I developed with that.

[00:12:49] And I would say the other road I went down was I got too much down the golf swing road.

[00:12:55] So my dad was a PGA pro, like knew his stuff, but kept it very simple.

[00:13:02] And it was always like, Hey, you know, dad's not enough.

[00:13:05] Let's go somewhere else.

[00:13:06] Let's go look for something else.

[00:13:07] And kind of started going down that swing road and just always changing and became very

[00:13:14] streaky.

[00:13:14] And I just think I got too much down that road as well.

[00:13:17] Okay.

[00:13:18] No, I appreciate that.

[00:13:20] Scott, let's, let's tie that into, um, you, you had a lot, I mean, you had 13 years with

[00:13:25] Ricky, a lot of wins out there.

[00:13:27] Um, I mean, you were second place in all the majors in one consecutive year.

[00:13:35] Um, that's correct, right?

[00:13:37] It was top five in all of them.

[00:13:38] Oh, top five.

[00:13:39] Yeah.

[00:13:40] But he has, I believe he's finished second at every major.

[00:13:43] Yeah.

[00:13:43] Okay.

[00:13:43] That's the case.

[00:13:46] Um, I mean, let's, let me, let me address that real quick, right?

[00:13:51] When it became Ricky started struggling a bit and it's stuff that we've shared about

[00:13:57] and it's common knowledge, right?

[00:13:58] Like, um, it's never one thing.

[00:14:02] It's getting off base a little bit.

[00:14:04] Hey, having a couple of bad finishes working on the swing.

[00:14:07] Then the putter kind of fails you a little bit.

[00:14:08] Like when, from your perspective and when you see that you only have so much control,

[00:14:14] um, what does that do like for you as a caddy, knowing that you're doing the best that you

[00:14:19] can?

[00:14:20] Um, but I'll just use like the car analogy car just isn't running exactly the way that

[00:14:25] you want it.

[00:14:26] Right.

[00:14:26] What's that like then being a caddy being out there?

[00:14:28] Um, because being Ricky Fowler is still a lot different than being, being Derek Lamley,

[00:14:34] right?

[00:14:35] Like there's a name, there's always a light on it, but what's that, what was that experience

[00:14:38] like for you?

[00:14:40] Yeah.

[00:14:40] I mean, I thought there was a lot of things learned from it for sure for both of us.

[00:14:45] Um, but yeah, after the 10 years of success and the relationship we had and everything else,

[00:14:51] you know, you feel a part of it and you just want to do everything you can to stop

[00:14:56] it or to help and, you know, to just always trying to come up with, okay, what's the

[00:15:02] solve?

[00:15:02] What can we do?

[00:15:03] You know, going to him, helping him out.

[00:15:05] What else can I do?

[00:15:06] Where, where, where can we go with this?

[00:15:08] And, you know, I spent a lot of time, you know, after rounds trying to figure it out

[00:15:11] and, you know, other guys on this team did.

[00:15:13] And, um, you know, everybody kind of collaborating, trying to get it, you know, and trying to

[00:15:18] figure it out and Rick trying to figure it out and all of us trying to figure it out.

[00:15:21] And, you know, it can just be frustrating because you feel like you're not

[00:15:26] helping, you know?

[00:15:27] And so then you kind of like, okay, do I need a caddy different?

[00:15:30] Do I need to do this different?

[00:15:31] Does he need something different now?

[00:15:32] You know, those kinds of things.

[00:15:33] And you start trying and kind of, Hey, how can we turn this thing around?

[00:15:37] And we would have like moments of kind of turning it around and then it would be a

[00:15:40] setback and then kind of, okay, here we go again.

[00:15:42] And then be set back.

[00:15:44] And it was just one of those things, just golf can be that way, you know?

[00:15:47] And, um, and then, you know, when him and I split, you know, he really had a good, great

[00:15:54] next eight, nine months.

[00:15:56] He played fantastic, you know?

[00:15:58] So, um, so that was great to see.

[00:16:00] And I was just happy for him that he turned it around and got that going, you know, almost

[00:16:05] won a U S open, you know, uh, one rocket got on the Ryder cup team.

[00:16:09] So that was really cool because, you know, after three struggling years, that's, that's

[00:16:13] tough.

[00:16:13] And like you said, he's under the lights all the time.

[00:16:15] Everybody knows when he's struggling, he can't hide.

[00:16:18] And so it was great to see him kind of like pick himself up and dust himself off and go

[00:16:25] have a good eight, nine months, you know?

[00:16:27] Yeah.

[00:16:28] And Ricky's, um, I mean, always a great guy, um, just as you are with, let's go down that

[00:16:35] route just a little bit further, man.

[00:16:36] So you're on this quest of, and you can even put like your golfer hat on, right?

[00:16:41] We can make it more in general, right?

[00:16:42] There's always this quest of get better, get better, get better.

[00:16:46] Like I can keep getting better.

[00:16:47] And that's sort of the struggle with this game, right?

[00:16:49] As you can, yeah, you can always get better because perfection is unattainable, but where

[00:16:53] do you see it then?

[00:16:54] If as like, um, I don't want to say enough's enough.

[00:17:00] Right.

[00:17:00] But I mean, Lou Holtz said this, you can be pleased, but never satisfied.

[00:17:03] Like, where do you see that dynamic coming in just in general, when it comes to like golf,

[00:17:08] man, yeah, it's a tough one, right?

[00:17:10] Because that's what made Tiger so good.

[00:17:13] That's, you know, Phil always had that.

[00:17:16] Phil always had the, how am I going to get better?

[00:17:18] Whether it was equipment or this or that, um, you see it in Scotty, Scotty's grinding,

[00:17:23] he's putting the time in, he's so competitive.

[00:17:25] He expects so much of himself.

[00:17:27] Um, I think you've got to know your personality, you know, you got to know your personality,

[00:17:32] what you can handle, what you can't, you know, what you want out of the game, what you're

[00:17:36] willing to sacrifice, what you're not.

[00:17:38] And then I think the other thing is you got to be careful what you chase and how you try

[00:17:42] to get better.

[00:17:43] Some guys are very smart about how they get better and other guys aren't.

[00:17:47] And so sometimes people tell you to go do something or go down this road or that road

[00:17:53] and it doesn't work.

[00:17:55] And all of a sudden you get worse, you know, and sometimes you can go down the rabbit hole

[00:17:59] so far.

[00:18:00] Sometimes it's just a bad year or two years.

[00:18:02] And then some guys, you just never hear from them again.

[00:18:04] So I think it's, it's a very interesting thing of like, cause you are always trying to get

[00:18:09] better and you don't want to just accept here's where I am.

[00:18:11] But then, you know, you see guys go on the quest for distance or on the quest for this

[00:18:15] or the quest for that and changes who they are or change the mechanics of their golf swing

[00:18:20] or changes what they know and what they've seen.

[00:18:22] And it's tough, you know, and you see guys go through many parts of it, you know, like

[00:18:27] that was a call and work out thing.

[00:18:29] He's talked about it.

[00:18:30] Right.

[00:18:30] And now he's kind of figured it out again, what he does.

[00:18:33] And he had to figure out like, Hey, that's what I did.

[00:18:35] And when I tried to do this, it took me away from how I do it.

[00:18:38] And you see him having success again.

[00:18:40] So you've seen it with a lot of guys.

[00:18:42] It's just sometimes it lasts longer and some guys disappear forever.

[00:18:47] What was the biggest thing you learned going through the, that struggle with Rick?

[00:18:52] I think you start, you start appreciating a little bit more how good it was.

[00:18:58] Cause I think as a competitor, you know, we were thinking more like, well, when are we

[00:19:03] going to win these majors?

[00:19:04] You know, when are we going to win more?

[00:19:05] You know, um, how do we move up the world ranking more?

[00:19:09] You know, cause that was, you know, the outside world kind of saw it that way too.

[00:19:13] Rick's so talented, you know, could he win more?

[00:19:16] Could he do this?

[00:19:17] Could he do that?

[00:19:17] And, you know, we were always trying to figure that out as well.

[00:19:20] It wasn't necessarily cause they said that was just cause we wanted to win more events

[00:19:24] and we wanted to do that.

[00:19:25] And it's, but when you take a look back at those 10 years and how good they were and how

[00:19:30] good of a career he had.

[00:19:32] And if you'd have told him or anybody from our town when he was 13 years old, that's

[00:19:37] what he was going to do.

[00:19:38] You'd have been like, yep, I'll take it.

[00:19:39] Like, that's a great career, you know?

[00:19:41] But then when you're in the mix, you always want more.

[00:19:43] And so then I think when you have three years like that, you kind of appreciate how good

[00:19:48] it was for the 10 years, um, a little bit more than you did.

[00:19:52] You knew it was good, but you're always worried about how to make it better.

[00:19:55] Mm-hmm.

[00:19:57] One of the events that like, I mean, obviously there was, um, dating ourselves, right, man?

[00:20:02] I mean, 2010 Ryder cup.

[00:20:04] I mean, he halves the match, but coming back to, to have that, uh, winning, um, you know,

[00:20:10] the players in that fashion, I thought was incredible.

[00:20:13] But the one I kind of want to bring up was, uh, was waste management.

[00:20:18] And, um, I guess, was that one of your guys last victories together?

[00:20:23] That was our last one together.

[00:20:24] Last victory together.

[00:20:25] Talk to us about what, what, what do you remember about that event, man?

[00:20:28] Cause I just, from my standpoint, I just remember that one being, uh, you know, just

[00:20:33] finding a way to make that one happen, but, but share to us that, uh, you know, your, your

[00:20:38] experience.

[00:20:39] Yeah.

[00:20:39] I mean, a lot went on that final round.

[00:20:41] He played probably as good a golf as I'd ever seen him play the first 54 holes.

[00:20:46] And I think he had a four shot lead.

[00:20:47] I think he was 21 under.

[00:20:48] And then we kind of got, we got some rain and cold weather the last day.

[00:20:53] Golf course started playing different.

[00:20:54] All of a sudden you had five irons in the holes that were eight and nine irons.

[00:20:57] Um, hit a couple of loose shots.

[00:21:01] Always kind of, we always kind of struggled with the fifth hole there and we made double,

[00:21:05] um, you know, all this stuff happens and then kind of brings it back a little bit.

[00:21:10] And he's got a four shot, four shot lead, I believe again on the 11th hole.

[00:21:15] And that was like the crazy hole that everybody that was watching remembers, you know, hit

[00:21:20] it just in front of the green, you know, everything's kind of wet balls, kind of wet.

[00:21:24] It's a skidding pitch that goes over the green rolls down behind the bunker into the water,

[00:21:30] then drops it balls, rolls into the water.

[00:21:32] They've since changed the rule.

[00:21:34] Um, you know, makes a putt for triple gets out of there.

[00:21:38] It's not leading anymore.

[00:21:39] And then comes back, gets back into the lead.

[00:21:43] And then even the 18th hole, we had to kind of chip, hit it left and chip it down there

[00:21:47] in front of the green.

[00:21:48] You know, we're just trying to make bogey and get out of there because I think it was

[00:21:51] a two shot lead.

[00:21:52] And, um, you know, he chipped it up there, made the putt and got the job done.

[00:21:57] And to me, it was, it's probably the most satisfying one to me.

[00:22:00] Like the, the players is the biggest one, but that one was just such a crazy day.

[00:22:06] The way it went down, everything else, we had been so close at waste management.

[00:22:09] So many times we lost a playoff.

[00:22:11] We had his rookie year.

[00:22:13] We were close.

[00:22:13] We were in the final group other times.

[00:22:14] I mean, we had four or five shots of winning that thing.

[00:22:18] And we both wanted to win that thing really bad.

[00:22:19] And so to me, that one, you know, especially with, you know, your background and the mental

[00:22:25] toughness and everything else, that one to me was the most satisfying, like what he had

[00:22:29] to battle through to get that one done was, uh, it was really cool.

[00:22:34] Um, what do you remember about your experience and how well you did on that final round?

[00:22:41] Yeah.

[00:22:41] I mean, it's a lot easier from where I'm at, you know, like for me, my job is so much

[00:22:49] about procedure, do your thing.

[00:22:52] You know, don't let your emotions get in the way.

[00:22:55] Just keep doing your job, keep your guy in it as much as you can.

[00:22:59] You know, it's so much harder when you're actually hitting the shots and you're, and those emotions

[00:23:03] are going up and down and everything else.

[00:23:05] So I kind of try to just do what I normally do and, you know, don't get up and down too

[00:23:10] much.

[00:23:11] Don't get rattled too much, you know, just keep, keep going, keep doing what you do and, you

[00:23:16] know, kept doing it.

[00:23:18] And sometimes that works out.

[00:23:19] Sometimes your guy turns it around.

[00:23:21] Sometimes he doesn't, you know, sometimes it can have an effect on him.

[00:23:25] Sometimes it can't.

[00:23:26] Um, but it's never going to hurt him is the way I look at it is if I stay where I'm at

[00:23:32] emotionally and I keep doing my job, it's never going to hurt his success.

[00:23:35] Right.

[00:23:36] So, um, that one worked out and, you know, it was, like I said, it was very satisfying when

[00:23:41] it was all over.

[00:24:02] Hey, good looking.

[00:24:03] If you like this podcast and are already a badass, but it's all way too complicated, then visit

[00:24:09] our website, drrobbell.com and schedule a call with us to help capture your very own hinge

[00:24:16] moment.

[00:24:31] Yeah.

[00:24:32] Yeah.

[00:24:33] You always said, uh, caddying is about timing.

[00:24:36] Uh, was there an example in your career where if it's like, um, the timing, like really, I

[00:24:43] mean, or, or like being patient and then just being able to say thing at the right time.

[00:24:47] Um, is there, is there one that you remember that really paid off?

[00:24:50] Yeah.

[00:24:50] I mean, I'm sure there's been multiple times, you know, where I've said something at the

[00:24:55] right time or said something at the wrong time or whatever.

[00:24:57] I always try to, I always feel like I'm saying stuff at the right time.

[00:25:01] I don't know if they would say that, you know, cause I kind of, I'm very conscious of when

[00:25:05] I say stuff and why I say things, um, you know, and I'll bring up certain conversations

[00:25:10] for a certain reason or whatever in those times.

[00:25:13] Um, you know, and then you make some good calls and some, some bad calls and the one

[00:25:18] that the timing was right and the call was right.

[00:25:20] And he listened and he pulled off the shot was quail hollow, you know, cause I just, I

[00:25:26] thought it was that club all day.

[00:25:27] And, um, he went and he hit the shot and hit it in there, responded to the pressure, did

[00:25:32] a great job.

[00:25:33] But then there's been plenty of other timing players.

[00:25:35] I thought he should lay up on 16 and that was his call to go for it.

[00:25:39] And ended up winning the golf tournament because of it.

[00:25:41] So there you go.

[00:25:43] Yeah.

[00:25:44] I love it, man.

[00:25:46] Um, you shared one time and I kind of like, I'll take these quotes and kind of run with

[00:25:51] it, but Ricky, um, never really had a huge, big personality, but he always had a big presence.

[00:26:02] Um, share with us about like, and then this is just like, I'll equate this like in general,

[00:26:07] right?

[00:26:07] Like you don't have to have a big personality in order to have a big presence, but talk to

[00:26:11] us about all the greats that you've seen.

[00:26:14] Like personality isn't it, is it?

[00:26:17] Yeah.

[00:26:17] I mean, I think especially in golf, right.

[00:26:21] It's an individual sport that you spend a lot of time by yourself, you know?

[00:26:26] So like Ricky's a great guy.

[00:26:29] He's fun to be around all those things, but he's not a big dominant personality.

[00:26:33] You know?

[00:26:34] Um, you don't see, you see a lot more like guys that are to themselves kind of quiet.

[00:26:39] And, and I think you're seeing it right now too, with the guys that are kind of, you know,

[00:26:45] up there at the top, Scotty Scheffler, you know, he's, he just wants to play golf.

[00:26:51] He wants to win.

[00:26:51] He's not chasing anything else.

[00:26:53] He's not trying to show off anything.

[00:26:56] He's a great guy.

[00:26:57] Everybody likes him.

[00:26:57] Everybody respects him, but there's not some big superstar personality that everybody's

[00:27:03] looking for.

[00:27:04] Right.

[00:27:04] Xander.

[00:27:05] Xander goes and takes care of his business, does his thing.

[00:27:07] Well, respected, well, light, but he's about the golf and he's about taking care of the

[00:27:12] business.

[00:27:13] You know, uh, the guy I'm working for same thing.

[00:27:15] He's as nice a person as you meet.

[00:27:17] He's a 10 out of 10.

[00:27:19] And he just wants to go play golf.

[00:27:21] Right.

[00:27:21] And it's not about all the other stuff.

[00:27:23] And so, um, you have some superstar personalities out there, you know, that the camera is going

[00:27:29] to be more attracted to them and you have other guys that are just out there to do

[00:27:31] their business, you know?

[00:27:32] And I think you can make it work both ways and, you know, it's just knowing yourself and

[00:27:36] what you are, you know, whereas, you know, you play certain positions in other sports,

[00:27:40] you better have that leadership quality and you better have that personality.

[00:27:44] Otherwise, you know, maybe guys don't follow you as much and things like that.

[00:27:49] But in golf, you don't need anybody to follow you.

[00:27:51] You just got to go get the job done.

[00:27:52] Yeah.

[00:27:53] Yeah.

[00:27:53] Good point, man.

[00:27:54] You've been in those rooms when, uh, when golf is now a team sport, what stands out to

[00:28:00] you as an example in terms of that leadership?

[00:28:04] Yeah.

[00:28:04] I mean, I've been in a lot of those rooms and, um, without saying names, good or bad,

[00:28:11] you know, it's interesting to me because I grew up team sports, right?

[00:28:14] Like, even though I grew up a golfer, like I played quarterback, I coached, played basketball,

[00:28:18] played all these other sports.

[00:28:20] And there's always a team environment, even the golf teams I was on, you know?

[00:28:23] And so it's different when you're bringing 12 individuals, you know, the caddies, the wives,

[00:28:30] the whole thing in there and trying to make them a team for a week.

[00:28:33] It's a lot different than Belichick having them, you know, for a full year, you know,

[00:28:38] or a college coach having them for three or four years.

[00:28:40] Um, so you're trying to build something so quick and it's very interesting because you

[00:28:45] see a lot of different personality types.

[00:28:47] And the one that sticks out to me that's worked really well, if you look at his two teams,

[00:28:52] um, I was a part of one of them, the president's cup in 2017 at Liberty national.

[00:28:58] And then I wasn't a part of the other one at Whistler and straights and the writer cup

[00:29:01] was strict.

[00:29:02] And strict is more of a roll the guys out, let them play kind of a guy, you know, he takes

[00:29:08] care of all the stuff he needs to take care of, but he's not trying to over control him.

[00:29:12] He's not trying to make them do things that they don't normally do.

[00:29:14] He's making them comfortable.

[00:29:15] He has assistant captains like tiger and Fred helping him out.

[00:29:20] And it's just the dynamic seems to really work, right?

[00:29:22] I mean, they were both blowouts.

[00:29:24] I know I get it.

[00:29:25] The players playing team and you're still just playing golf, but that seems to work out well

[00:29:31] in that.

[00:29:32] Whereas in team sports, I think there's got to be a lot more of a structure and a discipline

[00:29:36] because it's a, it goes on for over time, a full season, all these things run, not just

[00:29:42] one week.

[00:29:42] So I think it's, to me, the only thing you got to do is just build a camaraderie that

[00:29:47] everybody wants to be there and wants to support each other.

[00:29:50] And whoever you roll them out there with, they should want to go win and they should be happy

[00:29:55] for their teammates and just doing anything they can to help whatever team you're on,

[00:30:00] whether it's us, Europe, international team, whoever it is, just help them win and just

[00:30:05] let the guys enjoy the week and enjoy each other.

[00:30:08] Yeah.

[00:30:10] I think you, I think like having a caddy like yourself, because we've seen this not in the

[00:30:16] broadcast booth, but also like on part of the team, like later on, right?

[00:30:20] Like I'm thinking like 2040, man, 2045, like Joe Scovern is going to be assistant captain

[00:30:26] here because you know all the personalities, right?

[00:30:29] I mean, you, there's not a root and interest in you, you can get along with everybody.

[00:30:33] Hey, I'm never going to turn that down.

[00:30:35] I don't, I don't know if that will ever happen for a caddies.

[00:30:38] You know, we get the, you know, if you're caddy for the guys, the captain here, the caddy

[00:30:42] captain, you kind of run the caddies, but I don't know if you'll ever see a caddies and

[00:30:46] assistant captain, but if anybody ever calls me, I'll be there.

[00:30:48] Scott, I'm calling it right now, dog.

[00:30:51] I would love it, man.

[00:30:52] I would love it.

[00:30:54] So we got to share this with, um, with everybody.

[00:30:57] And that is, uh, that's like the wager that we've had for a really long time.

[00:31:01] And, and the story was, is, uh, you know, Adam Sandler had this bet with Rob Schneider,

[00:31:07] not even sure what the bet was, uh, but it kind of grew legs, right?

[00:31:10] It was like the reason why Rob Schneider is in every Adam Sandler movie is because he lost

[00:31:17] the bet and that's why you'll see Rob Schneider in every Adam Sandler movie.

[00:31:22] So we had this wager and this was early on, man.

[00:31:26] I mean, this was 2008, 2010, probably.

[00:31:29] And I made the wager.

[00:31:29] I said, okay.

[00:31:30] And I think it was probably like monetary at that point.

[00:31:34] But I said, Bill Mickelson is never going to win a U S open.

[00:31:39] And the bet was if he doesn't, then Joe, you need to write a book blurb for every one of

[00:31:46] my books, I got to send it to you.

[00:31:48] You got to look it over and read it inside.

[00:31:50] You remember that one?

[00:31:51] Yeah, I do.

[00:31:52] Yeah.

[00:31:53] And then, um, and then Marion, man, that was a close one, right?

[00:31:58] I mean, Phil got really close there at Marion.

[00:32:02] Share with us what you remember about that one.

[00:32:05] So Rick was top 10 ish going to the last round, had a little bit of a chance.

[00:32:10] And like there was moments on Sunday where we were like, all right, if we make a little

[00:32:13] run here, we can win this thing.

[00:32:15] So we were, I don't know, two or three groups in front of Phil.

[00:32:19] And we were playing, I believe we were playing with Michael Kim.

[00:32:22] I think he was playing.

[00:32:24] He might've still been an amateur at that time, but he was playing really well.

[00:32:27] And I think it was Michael Kim, but whoever it was, they had a local caddy and the local

[00:32:33] caddy was like a celebrity all weekend, right?

[00:32:37] Like all the locals, everybody knew him and he's catting for this kid that's top 10 playing

[00:32:43] well.

[00:32:43] So he's like waving, going down the fairways to people and everything else.

[00:32:47] And on the last hole, Rick hit it in the short right bunker.

[00:32:51] And we're out of the tournament at this point.

[00:32:54] And I think he bladed over the green or it came out hot or whatever happened.

[00:32:58] And, and so I've got to go get to Rick to get him, get in the club.

[00:33:03] So normally what would happen with a tour caddy is they'd come in, get the bunker for you

[00:33:07] and help you out.

[00:33:08] Yep.

[00:33:09] Well, he didn't know that, you know, he had a lot going on, all these things.

[00:33:13] So I go over there with Rick.

[00:33:14] Now I got to go back to the bunker and I go back to the bunker and they're finishing

[00:33:17] the hole.

[00:33:18] And the guys in the group behind us are back there and Phil's either in the group behind

[00:33:21] us or the group behind that.

[00:33:23] He's still got a chance.

[00:33:24] And it literally went through my head because people are now yelling at me to like hurry

[00:33:29] up and everything else.

[00:33:30] And, you know, it's kind of chaotic around that 72nd green.

[00:33:34] And it literally went through my head.

[00:33:35] Like this better be perfect because I'm not going to cost Phil Mickelson a U S open.

[00:33:41] Like if he hits it in this bunker and this lie is not perfect, I am not costing Phil Mickelson

[00:33:45] his U S open and his grand slam and the whole thing.

[00:33:48] So I'm in there forever.

[00:33:49] And like, by the time I get done, everybody's sitting at the end of the green waiting to shake

[00:33:54] my hand, you know, the group or whatever, they're waiting on me.

[00:33:56] Rick's kind of laughing.

[00:33:57] People are now yelling at me and chair or whatever.

[00:34:00] And I'm just trying to get out of the way.

[00:34:01] And it was just, but I remember that thought going through my head.

[00:34:04] It wasn't necessarily because of the bet.

[00:34:06] It was just because I didn't want to cost.

[00:34:09] I didn't want to cost anybody a U S open.

[00:34:11] And that bunker is very easy to hit into, but it specifically went through my mind.

[00:34:14] And what if you cost Phil Mickelson is only U S open.

[00:34:17] He gets in there and the lie is not perfect.

[00:34:19] So I took a while in there.

[00:34:22] Did he, did he hit it in there?

[00:34:24] I don't think so.

[00:34:25] Oh, okay.

[00:34:26] Yeah.

[00:34:26] And I don't think by that point, I think Justin Rosen kind of locked it up by that point.

[00:34:30] Like by the time they all got there, but I don't know.

[00:34:33] Okay.

[00:34:34] Yeah.

[00:34:34] I love it, man.

[00:34:36] The very first event you ever did with, with Tom Kim was at the president's cup.

[00:34:40] Um, I always found that to be pretty remarkable, like first event, but then you kind of think

[00:34:46] about it and like, well, what a, what a better test ground than that.

[00:34:49] Right.

[00:34:49] Like to do it.

[00:34:52] Um, I always loved what you shared with me.

[00:34:55] Cause you and Max Homer was always, we're buddies, still buddies, but Max's demeanor that

[00:35:01] whole time, especially when you guys got paired together, it was totally different.

[00:35:03] Right.

[00:35:04] Like share with us about what that transformation was like.

[00:35:07] Yeah.

[00:35:07] So Max and I are really tight.

[00:35:09] We play a lot of golf at home together.

[00:35:10] I mean, he lives half a mile from me.

[00:35:13] And, um, yeah, so he wanted Tom.

[00:35:18] Um, he got Tom and I knew when we got on the first tee, I was like, okay.

[00:35:24] You know, cause if we get him on Thursday or Friday, Max and I are chatting quite a bit.

[00:35:28] Um, even Augusta on Sunday this year, we were chatting quite a bit and, uh, I knew there

[00:35:34] was a chance he wasn't going to chat much and he didn't say anything going up the first

[00:35:37] couple of fairways.

[00:35:38] And I kind of looked at Joe cause I'm close with caddy Joe too.

[00:35:41] And I said, we're, we're not going to chat much today, are we?

[00:35:44] And he started smiling.

[00:35:45] And, uh, I think he said one thing to me about the pin placement on the part three on the

[00:35:51] front nine.

[00:35:52] And other than that, I don't know if he spoke to me the whole time.

[00:35:55] Um, and Max ended up coming back and winning the match.

[00:35:59] And then he told me later, he's like, yeah, I was, he kind of smirked about it and he's

[00:36:03] like, yeah, I wasn't going to talk to you that whole day.

[00:36:05] You know, the whole mama mentality thing.

[00:36:07] So I, he, I kind of got a kick out of that.

[00:36:10] And he was, uh, he, he did too.

[00:36:13] He was, you could tell he kind of took pride in it that he, that he did that.

[00:36:16] So it was fun.

[00:36:19] So what, like, what do you glean from that?

[00:36:21] From like the mental standpoint?

[00:36:22] Cause I've always loved that story.

[00:36:23] I hold onto that one, but like, what do you glean from it?

[00:36:26] Well, I think, you know, it's anything.

[00:36:28] It's like, everybody's different, right?

[00:36:30] I mean, it's like the legendary Kobe running over Powell to send the message, you know,

[00:36:34] even though I was his best friend and, you know, like that to his kids and the whole

[00:36:40] thing.

[00:36:41] Right.

[00:36:41] And like the involvement and everything.

[00:36:42] And Powell, the way he took it of like, that's just Kobe.

[00:36:45] Right.

[00:36:46] Like he didn't get mad about it.

[00:36:47] It didn't ruin their friendship.

[00:36:48] All competitors are different.

[00:36:50] Right.

[00:36:50] Some guys need to chat.

[00:36:51] Lee Trevino needed to chat, you know?

[00:36:53] So, um, and match play, especially it's a lot different, right?

[00:36:58] Like, you know, stroke play, you're playing the whole field.

[00:37:01] You're doing this whole thing, but then match play, you're playing that guy.

[00:37:04] So if you're chatting with him the whole time, it's a little tough, even chatting with

[00:37:07] the caddy or whatever, like you're probably not going to be the same.

[00:37:10] Right.

[00:37:11] Like, it's just, you know, like I said, we played the final round of Augusta together

[00:37:15] and we were chatting the whole time.

[00:37:18] So it's, uh, yeah, I've got zero problem with it.

[00:37:22] And, um, you know, everybody's different the way that they want to handle it.

[00:37:25] And I think sometimes, you know, that can provide a little bit of an edge, you know, one-on-one

[00:37:29] situation, especially, you know, it could be a little intimidating or it can kind of set

[00:37:33] the tone in a certain way where you're putting yourself in control that way.

[00:37:37] Right.

[00:37:37] So, you make a business decision probably one year ago, um, from Tom Kim's bag to, uh,

[00:37:50] Oberg's bag, which, uh, which are on now.

[00:37:53] Um, you know, obviously, I mean, Tom's a great player.

[00:37:59] It's going to be a great player.

[00:38:02] Um, I guess my question when it comes to that, man, is how did you know, like trusting your

[00:38:07] gut and that kind of situation?

[00:38:08] Was there one, I know it's never one thing, but it's always one thing.

[00:38:12] Was there an instant about there?

[00:38:13] It's like, Hey man, this is the right business decision I need to make.

[00:38:17] That was a tough one.

[00:38:18] Um, you know, Tom and I, even though it was only a little over a year, we developed a great

[00:38:22] relationship and, you know, got a couple of wins together and, um, you know, we're still,

[00:38:28] we still get along really well.

[00:38:30] I mean, he's been amazing about the whole thing.

[00:38:32] Um, I still pull for him all the time and I really care about the kid.

[00:38:37] Um, it's just, this, this guy is just different, man.

[00:38:41] This guy, he's, he's special.

[00:38:44] And, you know, I knew he was a special golfer.

[00:38:46] I didn't know he was as special of a human either, like the relationship we have and how

[00:38:51] easy he is to work for and how many things I respect about him.

[00:38:55] You know, he's 25 years old and there's so many things that I'm like, man, it's just

[00:38:58] so impressive the way he goes about his business and the way he does things, the way he treats

[00:39:02] people.

[00:39:02] And, um, you know, I think this is just, this is one of those jobs that doesn't come around

[00:39:07] very often.

[00:39:08] Mm-hmm.

[00:39:10] I always love, um, I mean, obviously the, the flight of his irons is so well, but I mean,

[00:39:18] in order to win those majors, like your long irons, you have to hit them high.

[00:39:22] Don't you?

[00:39:23] Yeah.

[00:39:24] I mean, everybody talks about distance and that's fine.

[00:39:28] The speed's great.

[00:39:29] It's an advantage, but like to me on the PGA tour, the guys that can separate themselves

[00:39:36] are the guys that can hit the driver and the long irons high because height in your distance

[00:39:44] is a big deal too, because you're carrying bunkers, you're carrying trees, you're carrying

[00:39:48] corners and then long irons, mid irons, when greens get firm at Memorial or at a U S open

[00:39:54] or Bay Hill, like it really shrinks the field.

[00:39:58] And because the other guys have to be so perfect.

[00:40:02] And there's a reason you've seen Tiger Woods, Jack Nicholas, now Scotty Scheffler dominate

[00:40:08] that, you know, Rory McIlroy, high long irons, like no pin can hide.

[00:40:13] They can stop it on a green.

[00:40:16] That's the separator.

[00:40:18] I mean, I remember, you know, talking about stories.

[00:40:21] I remember the first time I saw Scotty Scheffler play was at La Quinta.

[00:40:25] We were in maybe the second or third to last group.

[00:40:28] It was the year that Andrew Landry ended up winning and had never seen Scotty play.

[00:40:34] And he kind of hit some loose ones early on and, you know, didn't really do a whole lot.

[00:40:40] And then all of a sudden on that 16th hole, the par five with the big bunker on the left,

[00:40:45] he hit this three or four iron to the moon.

[00:40:47] I mean, this thing was so high and he did about a foot and a half and it gave himself,

[00:40:51] he gave himself a chance to win.

[00:40:53] Like where he got close enough that it was like, okay, he could win.

[00:40:55] And I remember telling people after I'm like, Hey man, you just don't see that very often.

[00:41:01] Like, I didn't know he was going to do this.

[00:41:03] I didn't know this was, you know, there was anything like this was coming.

[00:41:10] There was something there because you just don't see that ball flight very often, you know?

[00:41:16] I'm glad I could bring out that story in you, man.

[00:41:19] Look at you triggering a little story.

[00:41:23] Oldberg was a rookie this year at the masters.

[00:41:27] You guys finished second, had a good run.

[00:41:31] What was it?

[00:41:32] I mean, because playing Augusta for the first time, there's a reason why no one went,

[00:41:36] I mean, very few win at their very first time out.

[00:41:39] What did you feel to be, Hey man, this is key in terms of prepping for that tournament?

[00:41:48] Yeah, we put a lot of time into our prep.

[00:41:50] We went on an early trip.

[00:41:52] We had a very specific plan on how we were going to prep for each pin, for each situation.

[00:41:59] You know, we kind of got the tee shots out of the way, the first round there.

[00:42:03] And then we saw a couple pins on that early trip.

[00:42:06] Then we had certain pins we were going to see on Monday, certain pins we were going to see on Tuesday.

[00:42:10] We talked a lot about the discipline needed there.

[00:42:14] It's not playing safe or not playing aggressive.

[00:42:19] It's playing discipline.

[00:42:20] So when you're playing aggressive there, you have to play aggressive.

[00:42:23] And when you're playing away from it, you have to play away from it.

[00:42:26] You can't get in between on shots there.

[00:42:28] There's certain pins that like you fired the stick, you don't bail.

[00:42:32] And that's the way to do it.

[00:42:33] And then there's other ones you have to miss right, or you have to miss left.

[00:42:36] And it doesn't matter if it's 30 feet or 15 feet.

[00:42:39] You cannot be on the other side because that's where the big number comes.

[00:42:42] So we talked a lot about that before.

[00:42:46] And then, you know, he had those really tough conditions on Friday and he played an unbelievable round because he was kind of around the cut number for a little while.

[00:42:55] And yeah.

[00:42:57] Yeah.

[00:42:58] And he played an unbelievable.

[00:42:58] I think he was a little round of the day that day.

[00:43:00] And he shot 69 was a little round of the day.

[00:43:03] Something close to that.

[00:43:04] And that was a bogey on 18.

[00:43:06] Yeah.

[00:43:07] Yeah.

[00:43:07] So, and got himself back in the tournament.

[00:43:10] And then he just handled the moment so well.

[00:43:13] You know, he putted the greens really well, which you don't know if that's going to happen or not.

[00:43:18] Some guys get Augusta and some guys don't, you know.

[00:43:21] And then his game just fits it, right?

[00:43:23] Like, hits it high.

[00:43:25] Hits it a long ways.

[00:43:26] Like, hits his irons great.

[00:43:28] I mean, there's so many things about the place that, you know, lend towards him.

[00:43:32] And he loves that golf tournament.

[00:43:33] So it's a big deal to him, that golf tournament.

[00:43:37] And so, I think it just all kind of went together.

[00:43:41] And, you know, Scotty just had a great week.

[00:43:43] I mean, I think Lund finished second by two or three.

[00:43:48] So, you know, he beat everybody else in the field by two or three.

[00:43:51] And just Scotty got him, you know.

[00:43:54] So what is one of those holes or pin positions, man, where it's like you have to be aggressive at this one?

[00:44:00] Aggressive.

[00:44:02] Well, that discipline mentality you're talking about.

[00:44:04] The discipline mentality, like 14 is a great example.

[00:44:08] Like, 14, like, there's, you know, when they get that pin on that ridge, on that ridge, even though you're coming in there with a wedge, when they push that one that's up front right on the ridge, you have to miss long.

[00:44:21] And, like, if you're on the back fringe, that's okay.

[00:44:24] So if you're in between clubs, you can't try to, like, fit it in there and, like, take a little more off.

[00:44:30] Because then all of a sudden you're down that slope.

[00:44:31] And now you're putting, you know, you hit a great shot to eight or ten feet for par.

[00:44:35] And so five's another one.

[00:44:37] There's the pin that they tuck in the middle of that slope on five.

[00:44:40] And you play for 15 feet past it.

[00:44:43] Now, he hit it to about two feet to that pin.

[00:44:45] But we were playing for 15 feet past it.

[00:44:48] And then the miss worked out.

[00:44:49] If we were playing to try to hit it to two feet and he doesn't catch all of it, now you're down there and you're probably making five because you're putting it to 20 feet.

[00:44:58] So it's just picking your shot and being disciplined there that, like, hey, if I'm hitting it 20 feet past it, that's what I'm doing.

[00:45:05] If I'm hitting it 20 feet right of it, that's what I'm doing.

[00:45:07] Like, I'm aiming there for a reason, not like, oh, let me kind of slide this one over there a little bit, you know.

[00:45:12] And it's the same thing when you're chipping there, too, right?

[00:45:15] If there's any hesitation or anything, that's where all the bad stuff happens.

[00:45:18] So the commitment level has to be huge there.

[00:45:21] You've got to know which pins to take on, which ones not to.

[00:45:24] And you just kind of have to stick to your game plan and stay disciplined and know that it's going to work out over time.

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[00:45:55] I remember at Augusta, Stevie Williams telling me the story about when he had a headache in his hat when he kept taking his hat off.

[00:46:04] Did you ever know that one?

[00:46:06] Did they come say something to him or something?

[00:46:09] Yeah, they came and they said something to him.

[00:46:12] And he's like, okay, okay, mate, I'll put it on.

[00:46:14] And then he kept taking it off.

[00:46:17] But then on 17 T-Box, there was a guy waiting for him and said, we'll take that bag for you now.

[00:46:24] Unless you want to put that hat back on.

[00:46:27] I don't mess with the rules there.

[00:46:29] I follow the rules.

[00:46:31] Is there a favorite, like Augusta folklore or tale, man, or story you like?

[00:46:40] Man.

[00:46:42] No.

[00:46:43] I mean, I've had a lot of great experiences there, but not like any stories that are like, you know, wow, you got to tell this story kind of thing.

[00:46:50] No.

[00:46:50] But I've, I mean, it's my favorite tournament.

[00:46:53] I've had so many good times there.

[00:46:56] You know what stands out to me about this last year was Luda comes off of 11 making double.

[00:47:06] And it was like, those are one of those moments where I'm like, okay, well, let's, let's see.

[00:47:10] Right.

[00:47:11] And that's where I just felt like his response was so great.

[00:47:13] And his response like on 13 was fantastic.

[00:47:16] I mean, that, that seems to be like his it factor.

[00:47:18] Yeah.

[00:47:19] And a lot of people commented to me, I guess, I don't remember.

[00:47:23] And I guess we were laughing about something going to 12 T and like camera caught it or something.

[00:47:28] And I don't remember that part, but the thing that showed me what he's got was another great example of discipline pin 12.

[00:47:38] Right.

[00:47:38] And you hear Tiger talking about it all the time that your Tiger one eat it over the left of the bunker, you know, 40 feet.

[00:47:43] Right.

[00:47:44] And took his two putt and go because, you know, as soon as you start edging towards that one, that's for a righty.

[00:47:50] You miss hit it a little bit and it misses short right.

[00:47:53] And that's the problem.

[00:47:54] It's a way easier hole for a lefty.

[00:47:55] Right.

[00:47:55] That, that, especially that pin placement, because if you gas one a little bit, it goes further.

[00:48:00] So you can play to the middle of the green, you know, hit a little pull and it gets close.

[00:48:03] Whereas, you know, you miss hit one a little bit and you're edging towards that pin straight in the water and you pull it and you're long and stuff.

[00:48:11] Right.

[00:48:11] So, um, he got up there and after that happened, that would be where you would force it.

[00:48:18] Right.

[00:48:18] As a young guy and you would try to get a little closer and maybe hit in the water and make a double and you end up finishing 12th and don't have a chance to win at the end.

[00:48:26] And he stuck to the line over in the middle of that bunker that we had talked about all week and he stuck to the line.

[00:48:31] He stayed disciplined and he waited and then he went, okay, I got 13.

[00:48:35] I've got 15.

[00:48:37] Excuse me.

[00:48:37] I can make birdies coming in.

[00:48:39] And he hung around.

[00:48:40] It wasn't enough to beat Scottie, but he hung around and it was there.

[00:48:43] And if Scottie had messed up, you know, there was everybody else.

[00:48:47] I think Max finished third.

[00:48:48] And like I said, he was two or three back of, of Ludd.

[00:48:51] And so, you know, Ludd wins the golf tournament if Scottie messes up coming in, but Scottie didn't mess up.

[00:48:58] Yeah.

[00:49:03] What's your favorite part of, uh, of Rory?

[00:49:06] Like, I mean, I know driver wise, but like personality wise, what's your favorite part about him?

[00:49:11] Yeah.

[00:49:11] He's one of the best pairings out there actually.

[00:49:13] So I, I always enjoy being out there with him.

[00:49:15] He's, he's very chatty.

[00:49:17] Um, he's great to play with.

[00:49:19] He doesn't let the way he's playing affect the mood of the group.

[00:49:22] He doesn't affect other people.

[00:49:23] He doesn't get negative.

[00:49:25] Um, you know, he goes out there and he does his thing.

[00:49:28] I always remember too, like when he was young, when Rick won at Quail Hollow, um, his first win was in the playoff against Rory and DA.

[00:49:37] And I remember we were walking off the tee after the tee shots and Rory came up to me and started chatting and asking me how I was doing.

[00:49:43] And like, I was just like, wow, you know, like that doesn't happen in a playoff like that.

[00:49:48] Right.

[00:49:48] And so he's always been great to me and I've always gotten along with him really well.

[00:49:52] And I'm, I enjoy, uh, being out there with him.

[00:49:58] When, um, when it comes to just in general sports, then, and like the it factor, right.

[00:50:04] And you get to see it a lot of different ways out there, like on tour.

[00:50:08] But, uh, what, what's it like for you, man, when you kind of like, what's the if factor?

[00:50:14] The it factor.

[00:50:16] I mean, there's all kinds of different factors to me.

[00:50:19] There's the physical ones, right?

[00:50:20] Like what I was talking about that Scotty, you know, Rory blood, you know, those kinds of guys have.

[00:50:27] Right.

[00:50:27] Um, and then, you know, there's the it factor in different parts of the game as well, you know, and then you see the guys that can kind of finish it off.

[00:50:38] They can shake off things going wrong.

[00:50:42] They can shake off bad shots.

[00:50:43] They can shake off kind of everything and just keep going forward and keep finding a way.

[00:50:50] And like, you see it in Scotty, right?

[00:50:51] I mean, he kind of just hangs around when he doesn't have it.

[00:50:55] And then when he has it, he just takes off from everybody.

[00:50:58] And, you know, you, you know, like the Olympics were a great example, right?

[00:51:02] Like you, you never thought about him on Saturday or early Sunday.

[00:51:07] And then all of a sudden there he is, he's right back up there.

[00:51:10] And it's like, here we go again, you know?

[00:51:11] So, um, you know, I think with golf, it's, you know, keep moving forward and don't let things affect you and figure out how to get the ball in the hole when it's not going right.

[00:51:23] Yeah.

[00:51:24] Love it, man.

[00:51:26] Scobb, what, uh, what questions should I be asking that I'm not asking?

[00:51:34] Um, man, I don't know.

[00:51:39] That's a good, it's a good question.

[00:51:40] That's why I'm not hosting the podcast.

[00:51:46] Uh, yeah, I don't know.

[00:51:48] Um, you've asked some good ones, so it's hard to fault them.

[00:51:55] Now, you know, I can't let you off the hook there, man.

[00:52:00] It's kind of, it's kind of your turn to take the mic.

[00:52:03] Anything you want to talk about?

[00:52:05] Anything I want to talk about.

[00:52:06] Yeah, and you just phrase it in a question, then.

[00:52:09] Man, you got me here.

[00:52:14] I'm going to add one more question and I'll come back to you on that one.

[00:52:17] Okay.

[00:52:18] Talk to us about patience.

[00:52:21] Patience, I mean, patience is interesting to me because you hear Jack talk about it, you hear so many guys talk about it.

[00:52:30] But there's like a, I think there's a line there of patience, right?

[00:52:35] For a golfer, because if you're just always patient, then, you know, sometimes it might not come.

[00:52:41] And some of those guys are a little impatient when they make things happen.

[00:52:46] But, um, I think it's a big deal in certain tournaments.

[00:52:51] You know, you get to certain conditions, you know, like what I was talking about at Augusta, you know, that would be discipline or patience of like, hey, I'm going to keep executing the game plan.

[00:53:01] And it's going to, it's going to happen, right?

[00:53:04] So, um, the harder the conditions, the more the golf course requires discipline.

[00:53:09] I think patience is a big deal.

[00:53:11] But then there's sometimes if, if you're too patient out there and 23 under bars winning, like sometimes you just got to put the foot on the gas and go.

[00:53:18] So I guess it kind of depends on how you define patience.

[00:53:21] Um, but I think over the long term of your career, I think patience and getting better and getting what you want.

[00:53:29] And, you know, just like anything, like what you put into it in the process and everything, the patience for the results, I think is a big deal because otherwise you might go start searching for things that aren't going to make you better or whatever.

[00:53:43] It's just kind of taking it day by day and knowing, hey, I'm in the right path.

[00:53:47] It might not be tomorrow, might not be next month, but wait six, nine months when it shows up, it's going to show up.

[00:53:54] You hear Kobe talk about it all the time, right?

[00:53:55] When you see all this stuff that he said.

[00:54:00] That's why I can't wait to be patient there.

[00:54:03] There you go.

[00:54:04] There you go.

[00:54:06] Way to get that.

[00:54:07] What question should I be asking that I'm not asking him?

[00:54:15] I still don't know.

[00:54:18] You asked about the Chargers.

[00:54:19] You asked about all my players.

[00:54:23] You asked about my junior golf career.

[00:54:26] What about the worm?

[00:54:27] Why were you a Dennis Rodman fan?

[00:54:29] Why was I a Dennis Rodman fan?

[00:54:30] That's a great question.

[00:54:32] Well, I mean, his hair and everything got a lot of attention, but I love the way he played.

[00:54:37] I love the way he played as a piston.

[00:54:39] I love the way he played as a bull, as a spur, always diving on the floor.

[00:54:46] He made rebounding and art and studied rebounding and knew that was his thing.

[00:54:52] And this was a guy that could score when he was in KC and the whole deal.

[00:54:59] And he decided in the NBA, I'm going to play defense and I'm going to rebound.

[00:55:02] And I just respected that about him, how he was always doing the dirty work.

[00:55:05] I love that.

[00:55:07] Yeah.

[00:55:08] Yeah.

[00:55:08] Yeah, it's true, man.

[00:55:09] He would just go get it, wouldn't he?

[00:55:10] I mean.

[00:55:11] Yeah.

[00:55:12] Yeah.

[00:55:12] He was always on the floor.

[00:55:13] Always, you know, he was incredible.

[00:55:15] I never, I always say like good rebounders never ask, was that my ball?

[00:55:19] Yeah.

[00:55:20] There you go.

[00:55:21] There you go.

[00:55:22] You know, I was a big Scott Skiles fan.

[00:55:24] Loved Scott Skiles.

[00:55:25] Really?

[00:55:25] Okay.

[00:55:26] All right.

[00:55:27] He was a dog, he was a dogish mentality.

[00:55:30] Yeah.

[00:55:30] And with smallest dude out there.

[00:55:32] Yeah.

[00:55:33] Just dish, dish the assist, man.

[00:55:34] You know, I love the guys that are dogs like Jimmy Butler, Jalen Brunson.

[00:55:39] I love that mentality.

[00:55:40] I like that.

[00:55:45] One thing that bothers me about sports media today, Scott, and this is what we share about

[00:55:49] is it's not incorrect, but it's incomplete.

[00:55:57] And what I mean by that is let's just look at this past year in terms of like Bryce Young,

[00:56:02] right?

[00:56:02] Hey, they bench him.

[00:56:04] Oh, he's not the guy.

[00:56:06] He comes back after sitting a little bit and he's played well.

[00:56:09] Now I'm not saying like his full career is like Hall of Fame, but you have to let these

[00:56:15] things play out, right?

[00:56:16] Like in terms of the overall development, because you committed to the dude.

[00:56:20] And that's the thing I think that bothers me to sports media a lot of times is just like

[00:56:24] they're trying to make a take right now when it's a snapshot of just what's going on

[00:56:29] and they don't have the whole picture of it.

[00:56:32] Yeah, I 100% agree.

[00:56:33] But I think that's just the world we live in because we've got sports shows on all the

[00:56:37] time.

[00:56:37] They have to have something to talk about.

[00:56:39] Some of them probably don't even believe what they're saying, but you're right.

[00:56:42] We all want to make these judgments so quick.

[00:56:45] And it's like, let's see how the whole career plays out.

[00:56:47] And then let's judge their career if that's what we're going to do.

[00:56:51] You know, but everybody gets in a rush, man.

[00:56:54] And like you see it a lot with golf too.

[00:56:56] Everybody's in a rush for these guys to do so much so quick.

[00:56:58] And it's like, you know, give them time.

[00:57:01] Let's see how it all turns out.

[00:57:02] Then go from there.

[00:57:06] I always say, man, they don't boo nobody's, you know?

[00:57:08] So even if they're talking about you, you've done something, right?

[00:57:10] Yeah, that's right.

[00:57:12] Yeah.

[00:57:13] Come on, Scott.

[00:57:14] Finish us off, bud.

[00:57:14] What, uh, I mean, I know you, I mean, you got so much knowledge in there, man, to share

[00:57:19] with the listeners.

[00:57:20] Oh, no.

[00:57:21] I mean, I mean, I guess you could have asked me a little bit more about my dad and where

[00:57:29] I got the love for golf and my parents and why I ended up the way I did.

[00:57:34] You know, that would have been nothing about me, but that would have been.

[00:57:38] Do it.

[00:57:39] Run with it, man.

[00:57:40] Love it.

[00:57:40] I mean, that's the only reason, you know, that I ended up in this sport was my dad.

[00:57:45] And I talked about the thing with the chargers and, you know, my dad being a golf pro and

[00:57:50] my dad's going to be 78 next week.

[00:57:53] And he's still sending me swing videos three times a week that he's found another guy that's

[00:57:58] got another concept that he's going to put into his teaching.

[00:58:00] And, you know, he's always trying to learn and I've never seen anybody love golf more

[00:58:05] than him, you know?

[00:58:06] And he's just, so I was very fortunate that I grew up with that, you know, and then it

[00:58:11] turned into this career.

[00:58:12] And, you know, I'm always thankful for that.

[00:58:16] Talk to us about like, what was, what's another memory with your dad growing up, man, that you

[00:58:21] kind of hold sacred?

[00:58:24] Yeah, with Charger games, Sunday morning golf, you know, we played Sunday morning golf.

[00:58:30] Some people go to church.

[00:58:31] We played Sunday morning golf with him and all his buddies.

[00:58:34] That was the only day he could play running a golf course.

[00:58:36] And so that was kind of his day.

[00:58:38] And just, you know, my dad was great.

[00:58:41] You know, I know you deal with a lot of like, you know, and other people that maybe listen

[00:58:45] to this, you know, with junior golfers and young athletes and everything.

[00:58:48] My dad was so good with not getting in the way, you know, being supportive, but not getting

[00:58:53] in the way, not being overbearing, you know, kind of getting it and being the quiet guy

[00:58:59] in the background, not getting on coaches and doing all those things.

[00:59:03] And you see that.

[00:59:04] And, you know, my mom ran the junior golf association in our area and, you know, they

[00:59:08] were so good with all that stuff.

[00:59:10] I always appreciate that and how they were with other juniors and how they did that.

[00:59:15] And, you know, that's the thing that kind of bums me out sometimes when I see kids sports

[00:59:19] and things is just some of these parents just trying to live through their kids so much

[00:59:24] and, you know, yelling at coaches and yelling at refs and, you know, making excuses and trying

[00:59:30] to make their 12-year-old kid, you know, be the next Tiger Woods.

[00:59:35] And it's like, hey, man, just support them and give them some time, you know, and give

[00:59:39] them what they need.

[00:59:40] But, you know, it's – I was very fortunate with that, that I had my parents, you know.

[00:59:48] So now aren't you glad you put some thought into that one?

[00:59:52] Yeah.

[00:59:53] Yeah.

[00:59:53] So.

[00:59:55] I've always kicked this question around, Joe.

[00:59:57] It's like, why are we hardest on the people that we love the most?

[01:00:01] Yeah.

[01:00:02] But sometimes being hard on people can help too, you know.

[01:00:04] My mom was tough on me, but it was in the right ways.

[01:00:07] So I was – I appreciated everything that I got.

[01:00:10] So I always say, like – and I got this one from Jeff Van Gundy.

[01:00:13] He said, you always want to talk about stressful situations in non-stressful environments.

[01:00:17] That's what I try to do.

[01:00:18] Like, yeah, you'd be hard on them.

[01:00:20] They'd be hard on them, like, in the discipline piece, right?

[01:00:22] Yeah.

[01:00:23] Not right afterwards.

[01:00:24] Definitely not in the emotion of an event.

[01:00:26] Yeah.

[01:00:27] You know, and the power and the debrief when it comes to that stuff.

[01:00:30] Yeah, absolutely.

[01:00:31] No, I like that quote.

[01:00:32] That's great.

[01:00:34] My man, Joe.

[01:00:35] Thanks for coming on, bud.

[01:00:37] Wishing you all the best this upcoming season.

[01:00:40] And I'm glad we could do this, man.

[01:00:42] Thanks for taking the time, bud.

[01:00:43] I appreciate you having me on.

[01:00:45] Sorry that Phillip wanted to get his voice heard too, so.

[01:00:49] Thanks, bud.

[01:00:49] All right.

[01:00:50] See you.

[01:00:50] Bye.

[01:00:51] Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell.

[01:01:17] To find out more about Dr. Rob, visit his website at drrobbell.com.

[01:01:22] Or follow him on Twitter at DrRobBell.

[01:01:25] And subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of

[01:01:30] Mental Toughness as soon as it's available.

[01:01:33] Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time.

[01:01:36] Bye.