Ep. 151 - Allison Barber - Contribution Over Ambition

[00:00:09] Welcome to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes,

[00:00:16] executives and expert coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hint moment. Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:38] Hey attention to people. People over-processed, people over-pallacy, people overwinds and loss records.

[00:00:47] Pay attention to the people in your universe. So whether it was the Red Cross, family who donated

[00:00:56] the tissue from their loved ones when they passed away, organs and tissue pay attention to the hurt pay attention

[00:01:03] to the journey for those people that even though their donation is going to help lives and save lives, they're still grieving.

[00:01:11] So what's that look like? So our guest today on the Mental Toughness podcast is President of Indiana Fever. She has a doctorate degree

[00:02:34] and leadership. She was a previously chancellor at Western Governors University for 10 years.

[00:02:41] Has worked for many years in the Department of Defense and Red Cross. Her newest venture after her tenure at the Indiana Fever is complete as the Marvela project

[00:02:52] about today which empowers girls and women in sports. Our guest today is Dr. Allison Barber, Dr. Barber. Thank you so much for taking the time.

[00:03:02] Hi Rob, great to be with you.

[00:03:05] I always like to start out kind of about hinge moments and these moments that change our lives and when we have these insights and you met Luminton Barber as a girl, as a young girl

[00:03:17] but you even said at that time, like I'm going to marry him one day.

[00:03:22] True story, fourth grade. My husband and I attended a Christian school. Each day a student would get up and give a Bible verse or a little devotional and

[00:03:39] we're a nine years old. It's not really what you want to do is get up in front of your student classmates and share some kind of testimony.

[00:03:49] So most of us would just get up and get in and get out. You know, probably three, five and six or a lot of your heart and be done, prays at the,

[00:03:58] Lyndon got up, so Lyndon said I was a Baptist preacher.

[00:04:02] Lyndon got up, he had a little sport coat that day and I can remember it honestly

[00:04:06] for so many years ago but I remember it like it was just for a heat took his Bible

[00:04:11] and folded back the cover of it and held it like a girl you know Billy Graham preacher

[00:04:18] would do and he held the Bible and he tells the story about Abraham taking Isaac up

[00:04:24] and giving him up as a sacrifice and he walks through this whole part of Scripture

[00:04:29] and the implications of that so anyway he's basically giving a little sermon

[00:04:32] at in fourth grade and I was so impressed by his poise and his communication style

[00:04:39] and skill and confidence that I did come home that day and said to my mom there's a boy

[00:04:43] in my class Lyndon Barber, I don't like him now because we competed fiercely on the soccer

[00:04:49] field so I don't like him now but someday I'm going to marry him and we've been married

[00:04:53] 35 years yeah that's awesome I love that so so you were married the Gulf War breaks out

[00:05:01] your husband leaves the law firm which is in the end joins the army and now you're

[00:05:08] thrusted into DC you start working at the Pentagon in the White House pick us up from there

[00:05:13] yeah he was practicing law in north of Sindiana I was a school teacher like as you said

[00:05:18] the first Gulf War broke out in London came home and said he really wanted to serve the country

[00:05:22] so we both quit our jobs you know it's interesting we got station in New Jersey,

[00:05:28] Fort Mom in New Jersey I knew I taught for six years I had my master's

[00:05:33] I knew I didn't want to teach anymore I didn't know what I wanted to do and so I just

[00:05:38] reverse engineered my approach and took every job interview I could get thinking that would help

[00:05:46] me figure out what I did not want to do because every time I would talk to somebody they're like

[00:05:50] your teacher or you should teach it's like no I did that I'm ready for the next thing I went on

[00:05:55] over 50 job interviews everything from door to door in cyclopedia sales that tells you how old I am

[00:06:01] that those were still a thing to acting in New York and commercials everything in between

[00:06:07] and at the same time I was going through and I was getting a lot of rejections because people

[00:06:11] only saw me through the lens of a school teacher and they couldn't it just came in such

[00:06:17] so handy when I worked at the Pentagon I went through this personal journey where people could

[00:06:22] not recognize a skill set that worked in the classroom could apply to their business

[00:06:27] in good ways communication, education, teaching, developer all the things that gallop

[00:06:33] string Fender talks about most before that too so as I was going through all these job interviews

[00:06:39] of mostly coming up with nothing I volunteered at the Red Cross I've been a Red Cross

[00:06:46] 16 and so I had a lot of time on my hands and my house was like why do you volunteer so I went to

[00:06:51] the local Red Cross started volunteering and over my volunteer time they told me about a division

[00:06:58] that they were relocating from New York to DC and it was in New Jersey and in the transport it's

[00:07:07] tissue services so donated human tissue being used for orthopedic surgery so I helped him out with

[00:07:14] my program and then they asked if I would apply for the management program management of that

[00:07:20] program in Washington DC and I did and I got the job and so through that journey it just taught

[00:07:27] me immediately of you really don't know how dots connect but if you put your hand to things

[00:07:34] and stay open-minded no I didn't have a background at biomedical services so the fact that I

[00:07:40] went to run a biomedical program was new and a lot of learning but in that moment they realized

[00:07:47] what they really needed was somebody who knew how to do marketing communication and brand building

[00:07:54] which then I've done that in several careers since so I worked at the Red Cross for six years

[00:08:00] then started my own business I had my own PR business that came along because we were supposed

[00:08:06] to go to Germany and those I worked has transferred and then from there I went to the Pentagon.

[00:08:10] Okay now a fantastic absolute love that with you know they're background them when you get

[00:08:16] to the Pentagon I mean the Department of Defense I mean there are a lot of layers.

[00:08:21] I kind of want to focus on the communication skills that ought to be developed especially

[00:08:27] there like what was one of those really important facets that you had to develop quickly

[00:08:33] at the Pentagon when it came to you know especially communication. One of the first lessons I

[00:08:40] learned there were two things I would say to that question. One is to be a strategic communicator

[00:08:47] you don't have to be the subject matter expert so early on in my career depending on my boss said

[00:08:54] I need you to go meet with General Keta she needs a communication strategy and missile defense

[00:09:00] and I'm walking down the hallway thinking to myself missile defense I kind of remember

[00:09:04] Reagan talking about Star Wars. I have no idea what missile defenses I've never watched the

[00:09:11] movie Star Wars I never watched Star Trek I didn't play any of those Star Wars he games like

[00:09:16] I don't even know what we're talking about here and as I'm walking to his office it dawned on me

[00:09:22] he's a four star general it's his job to know what missile defenses it was my job to listen to

[00:09:29] talk about it and help create a strategic communication plan around the topic and subjects and so I

[00:09:36] learned quickly that listening is critical and that you don't have to be the subject matter expert

[00:09:45] you have to help them know how to communicate their passion their mission their work. The second

[00:09:51] thing I learned is you can't really be successful until you get a sense of other people's agenda

[00:09:58] so what seemed clear and obvious to me at the Pentagon about what how we should move forward on an

[00:10:04] issue hit a brick wall until I could understand the competing interests around there

[00:10:11] around the corporate table what did the army need what did the navy need why did the army

[00:10:16] need something different than the navy and all of this is rolling up to the common good of national

[00:10:21] defense and so my learning took place pretty quickly and I went in in May and then 9-11 happened

[00:10:28] which of course you know set the stage for a lot of different behaviors and learnings and

[00:10:34] interests that were critical to our success but understanding that the way ahead is even if it's

[00:10:41] clear to you it doesn't matter until you understand the other agenda navigate their agenda

[00:10:47] as and figure out a way for success to happen for everybody it's possible not always possible.

[00:10:55] You know during 9-11 we were at the Pentagon that day I was in a plane that morning flying to

[00:11:00] Atlanta so in the sky landed took the underground tunnel into the office building and when I got

[00:11:07] into the office they told me New York had been attacked I asked to get to television when they

[00:11:12] got me to a conference room with a TBI saw the Pentagon on fire a lot of things ensued if

[00:11:17] from that moment forward like for everyone in the country and world but then I was able to

[00:11:22] run a van and drove back and got back to work the next morning. Okay yeah.

[00:11:29] I'm always fascinated by again with when we're all aging right where people were

[00:11:35] especially during those times and and that obviously hits really close to home.

[00:11:39] Yeah, you know. Yeah it was interesting I landed in Atlanta when I found out about

[00:11:44] the attack I called my husband who worked across the street from the Pentagon but all the

[00:11:48] phone lines were down so I called my mom with a sitting in the antenna and I said,

[00:11:52] I'm just like, well you know I'm okay I'm in Atlanta. I wasn't at the Pentagon and then

[00:11:59] short time later my husband had to walk two miles to get to a phone line that would work

[00:12:04] and he called my mom to let her know I wasn't in the Pentagon and she goes, oh I already hurt from

[00:12:09] her and my husband told us for a year's later and said that was the first time I knew

[00:12:13] Allison was safe because he didn't know because we didn't know how many more planes were involved

[00:12:20] in the attack. So it's just interesting the timing of that that it was my phone called the

[00:12:25] Indian and then his phone called the Indian then he real because there was no way for us to be in touch

[00:12:29] due to the you know phone lines and all the things happening but it was surreal.

[00:12:48] Hey good looking if you like this podcast and are already a badass but it's all way to complicated

[00:12:55] then visit our website drrabbell.com and schedule call with us to help capture your very own

[00:13:02] hinge moment. So you ran internal communications for military I mean radio and television

[00:13:24] 180 countries I was always fascinated by the stars and stripes newspaper because that was I mean

[00:13:30] it's been around 18 hundred right yeah civil war can he she can you share with us like um

[00:13:38] you know biggest learning experience from that. Stars and stripes newspaper is a first amendment

[00:13:44] newspaper but it is paid for and run for by the Department of Defense so back years ago

[00:13:51] before there were all these forms of communication the Department of Defense determined that the

[00:13:56] military members deserved a newspaper that was first amendment in other words there's no influence

[00:14:04] by the Pentagon it's not propaganda it's a newspaper like you would buy on this street corner back

[00:14:11] in the day but but because these troops were deployed the Department of Defense had to run

[00:14:16] that newspaper had to deliver it no you know the New York Times Washington Post couldn't get

[00:14:21] forward deployed bases so it was this it was such a respectful model of saying how do we make

[00:14:27] sure men and women men back then but men and women in the military got the news that they similar

[00:14:33] to if they were at home in Indiana what was incredibly complicated is that the people worked

[00:14:41] that it serves and stripes they worked for the Department of Defense but they spent a lot of their time

[00:14:49] being critical of the Department of Defense curious research you know journalism freedom free journalism

[00:14:58] approach so you had reporters that were the Department of Defense employees on military bases

[00:15:05] because they worked for the Department of Defense and then they were writing stories about it so

[00:15:10] and we didn't begrudge that of course we supported it but it made it complicated that you go to work

[00:15:15] and your own organization was being critical of your policy on something and navigating that but

[00:15:22] it was for the good of the soldier and I think that's how we all managed to you know keep the piece

[00:15:29] yeah I love all the I'm connecting the dots because I'm seeing how wonderful the communication

[00:15:36] skills and leadership that they develop and every step along the way you know you seem to have

[00:15:44] skill of manifesting so when and I kind of take this step in terms of like the secretary of labor

[00:15:51] Elizabeth Dome and one day you said the same thing you said I'm going to work for her one

[00:15:57] best yes yes I should be careful what I say I should only say really good things

[00:16:03] but sounds like it works out that's almost fascinated by it yeah I you know people talk about

[00:16:08] I'm not a huge thing of you know if you say it you can be a speak it into the universe so I've

[00:16:14] never really embrace that other than the fact that I've done it you know and so

[00:16:19] I was a school teacher in North West Indiana and the summers I was managing the country club

[00:16:25] pool and tennis activities to augment my teacher salary I know that's shock that that needed to happen

[00:16:32] but when I was clocking in and next to the machine where you clocked in your time machine

[00:16:38] their time clock machine there were the Department of Labor rules that they have to post at every

[00:16:43] company and and when I clocked in for sure I just said I'm going to work for her someday and Elizabeth

[00:16:48] Dome is a secretary of labor now I'm in North West Indiana I'm a school teacher married and somehow

[00:16:55] I say I'm going to work for her someday and fast forward you know my husband joins the army we go to

[00:17:01] Jersey I volunteer I end up working at the right cross and Elizabeth always the president of the

[00:17:06] red cross when I got there and so for sure it worked out that I did get to work for her and she

[00:17:13] and I continue to be great friends and now I'm still and you know it's volunteer for her

[00:17:19] nonprofit for military caregivers so it's been a really great journey that started off by a

[00:17:25] desire and spoken word that I would work for her yeah you you've had so many different careers

[00:17:34] and one of the things that you said in a previous interview was I was always hungry to seek out what

[00:17:40] I can do as that always been a big motivating factor in terms of you know challenging yourself

[00:17:47] and seeing what it is possible I think that's right I'm not I'm not overly motivated to pick up new

[00:17:58] arts or crafts or I went to the local art festival penwriter festival this weekend is so fabulous

[00:18:04] and I walked by all these booths seeing if something peaked my interest to try some new hobby into

[00:18:10] you know paint or design and I'm so impressed by the people who can do that I'm not drawn to any of it

[00:18:17] but I am drawn to that was work I'd love to work and so I'm always curious about learning

[00:18:24] something new a new skill a new business a new opportunity to make a difference and so that

[00:18:32] that does motivate me I love starting new things I'm not a terrific maintainer so once I get

[00:18:37] a challenge and get after something I enjoy the hard work and the risk of the new

[00:18:43] once we get to a certain level it's usually time for me to go to the next thing which is why I have

[00:18:49] kind of a long resume of different careers because I do believe in the work market spucking

[00:18:55] amded with strengthfinders and gallop about finding your strengths and playing to your strengths

[00:19:00] and so I just haven't tried to manufacture new strengths up to try to figure out how to

[00:19:05] maximize what I've been given and how to try and make something good come of it.

[00:19:11] So with Western Governor's University meet with Governor Daniels at the time and this starts on

[00:19:20] full to accept this challenge I was always fascinated because you met within 214 people across the

[00:19:26] next year all across great state of Indiana I'll share with us that journey.

[00:19:33] Would somebody a governor love it of Utah one time I heard him say your best day is when someone will

[00:19:40] someone will believe in you enough that they'll share their reputation and their rolla decks with you so

[00:19:46] old school their contact less people don't know what a rolla decks is. When we launched WGU in the

[00:19:52] event I was the governor's idea to make it the states online university and you know and then

[00:19:58] he'd just realized we had over 700,000 who's yours with some college and no degree and WGU

[00:20:04] was the perfect fit for so many of them to finish their bachelor's or earn their master's.

[00:20:10] And so when we started this in 2010 I think we had 200 students that have kind of figured out WGU

[00:20:16] from Google search or something and I realized that we should be busy about spreading the word

[00:20:24] and so when I would meet with someone I was so fortunate I'd meet with someone in NATO I also

[00:20:29] and you should also meet with someone so or you should meet with this person or that person

[00:20:34] and so people were sharing their rolla decks I didn't know anybody in Indiana plus other than my family

[00:20:40] so they were also sharing their reputation with me and I was so grateful the reason I know I

[00:20:46] met with 214 people is because that's how many thank you notes I wrote and I had a list of how many

[00:20:51] you know who I was writing notes to but it was so humbling that people would share the reputation

[00:20:57] in other words you would take a meeting with me not because you know me but because you knew the

[00:21:00] connector and that was a powerful journey that I think maybe only happens in Indiana where

[00:21:10] people are so generous and kind and helpful with no strings attached you know in some places in this

[00:21:16] country somebody might set up a meeting for you but they're going to expect something in return that

[00:21:20] is not what we have here in Indiana it's how do we help people for the better good of our community

[00:21:25] that's what happened and so I met with all each person and then they would lead to the next meeting

[00:21:31] to the next meeting and it taught me a lot about our culture of our state and our business mindset

[00:21:39] here of being philanthropic not just with money but with time and relationships and so that's how we

[00:21:48] grew WGU to students in all 92 counties of Indiana over I don't know when I left with over 10,000

[00:21:57] graduates that stayed in the state so all of those pieces I still just I said I know to somebody who

[00:22:02] was one of my first meeting one of the first people I met with and I wrote her known I said

[00:22:07] you know over 10,000 graduates in the state of Indiana and I hope you feel great about each one

[00:22:13] of those because that you you played a role in developing this model that reached those people

[00:22:19] you know and so that journey was really humbling. I'm big on thank you notes have you always

[00:22:27] been a thank you note person. I have much to that I have because like most kids who write

[00:22:33] thank you notes they had a mother who you know didn't let them go outside to play basketball until

[00:22:39] they wrote their thank you notes for their birthday gifts. Yeah same here yeah and my mom had eight

[00:22:46] brothers and sisters too so that always that's a lot of aunts and uncles. Yeah um was that the biggest

[00:22:54] difference well one of the biggest difference I mean because I grew up in Maryland so I've

[00:22:57] due to like the power structure of you know the DC in one of the junior area but have you found

[00:23:03] that to be the biggest difference then in terms of people would meet with you without having

[00:23:08] a side of general what can you do for me? Yeah yeah I grabbed that was a huge difference but I think

[00:23:15] the biggest difference is in Indiana Indianapolis it's specifically I spend most of my time here.

[00:23:22] People expect you they expect you to be helpful. I give the Lily family all the credit for creating

[00:23:34] that that's I mean that is a philanthropic mindset how can we help and so it's not

[00:23:41] there's not a ton of just you know given people high fives for being so generous and health it's just

[00:23:47] expected here so whether you're launching WGU Indiana or hosting the NBA all star or the Super Bowl

[00:23:55] we have this expectation in our community and I really value it and try to you know projected as well

[00:24:02] of of course for all gonna help each other out because that's what we do here that's the biggest

[00:24:06] difference. Yeah want to listen to your favorite music but you're sick of all the commercial

[00:24:11] interruptions and negative news today tune into kuko radio dot com music for your mindset

[00:24:18] where a commercial free online radio station playing nothing but hits our free iOS and Android apps

[00:24:25] are available for download at kuko radio dot com. I love one of the quotes you said but your

[00:24:32] definition of success is contribution. Yeah that's really where I landed on that years ago

[00:24:43] you know a lot of people write their personal mission statements they have a different word every

[00:24:47] year that they live into I support anything that people use as tools to motivate themselves

[00:24:53] to drive to be the best person they can be and make the biggest impact. Years ago I landed on

[00:25:00] word contribution. If I had one word one one mindset that would drive all my choices and my

[00:25:09] priorities most importantly it would be contribution and that has served me really well so I

[00:25:15] can take on a job like WGU Indiana with all of the risks associated with that because at the end

[00:25:23] of the day it was a model that was a university was contributing to the good of the losers so

[00:25:29] that felt good to me and so that it's a it's perfect for the life that I want to live

[00:25:36] in the motivation and the drive of and it gives me also the strength to say no to things.

[00:25:44] So you know opportunities that have come my way which are terrific and I'm grateful for them but

[00:25:47] you know if the end game there was financial success just for the sake of money it was easy to

[00:25:55] walk away from because it wasn't rooted in contribution and now sometimes making money opens up

[00:26:02] more abilities to contribute so I'm not against that at all for sure but it just drives

[00:26:06] it's driven my choices of my priorities in a way that I think is kept me aligned with the person

[00:26:14] that I'm working hard to be. Yeah it's fantastic thank you for that and so then you get a call on

[00:26:20] today from Rick CEO of Patreus Sports Entertainment. Yeah can we pick up your journey there?

[00:26:30] Sure he called me out a Friday morning I saw his name on my phone a caller ID and I thought

[00:26:35] oh he needs somebody to help fill the table at the economic club luncheon you know sometimes

[00:26:39] you have a full table and then you have a couple interns and then all of a sudden the client

[00:26:43] dropped out and I have one client and five interns and I don't know about you but I have a short

[00:26:49] list of super good friends that I can just call and say say like you know could you help fill my table

[00:26:55] we all get how that happens. I just as falsely assumed he was calling because he needed

[00:27:00] somebody to fill the table and I took the call and he said how about talking to me about being

[00:27:04] the president of the blue I've been to fever games you know it was a huge to me cofan

[00:27:15] but didn't know really anything about the I didn't know that they were even looking for

[00:27:20] president so I wasn't it wasn't out my list of you know things to think about so that was really a

[00:27:26] shock and I was humbled by the phone call realized that they were in a position where they could

[00:27:33] use somebody that liked building brands because the franchise had been through some transition

[00:27:38] times since to make a retired and that seemed like a good opportunity to do something good

[00:27:43] for my to try to do something good for my state and for girls and women in sports and so you know

[00:27:50] I got the call and a couple weeks later I was learning a lot about basketball you know they had

[00:27:56] a board and the coaches whiteboard it said blobs and slabs and I was like okay who in sport why

[00:28:04] would they call somebody a blob or a blob right what's that about is that I realized it's baseline

[00:28:10] out of bounds inside line out about like I had a lot of learning I've never done the X's and

[00:28:14] knows I love being I played in my drive because I'm a good loser since my favorite game but

[00:28:19] learned a ton yeah what um so what did you learn like I guess what was the biggest skill that

[00:28:29] you took into being president that department of fans all the communication all the years that

[00:28:39] they took into you know being president. Hey attention to people people over process people over

[00:28:48] policy people over wins and loss records pay attention to the people in your universe you know so

[00:28:56] whether it was the red cross family who donated the tissue from their loved ones when they passed away

[00:29:03] organs and tissue pay attention to the hurt pay attention to the journey for those people that even though

[00:29:11] their donation is going to help lives and save lives they're still grieving so what's that look like

[00:29:18] that played off you know that was a really good skill set for 9 11 when the day after you know

[00:29:23] the attacks on the Pentagon days later my boss asked me to be the person to go over to the family

[00:29:29] briefings every day so now I'm in a hotel conference room with all the families who would

[00:29:34] lost somebody at the Pentagon so that paying attention to people is critical and you know so

[00:29:42] WGU paying attention to people don't don't then not judging and not not forecasting what you think

[00:29:49] their feelings should be or how they should handle something meeting people at WGU that dropped out

[00:29:53] college for legitimate reasons they had different priorities and just accepting people for who

[00:30:00] they are where they are and then seeing if you can contribute to you know their better life and

[00:30:07] so coming into the fever you know we had season ticket holders for 20 years that had been with the

[00:30:12] fever and through the ups and the downs would they want a championship it's pretty awesome

[00:30:16] and then we were going through transition time and so I think you know I spend a lot of time with

[00:30:21] fans understanding their thoughts and their desires their their hopes for our franchise so I

[00:30:29] think it's if you pay attention to the people you'll learn a lot but more importantly you'll

[00:30:35] understand the culture the opportunities the barriers to success so in each career

[00:30:46] I spend a lot of time on a retail politician you know I go to the fish rise I go to the WGU

[00:30:52] you events and I'll be at the baseball game tomorrow night with our fans I just think the more time

[00:30:58] you spend with people listening to them and not having the answers but having curiosity it just

[00:31:04] makes you a strong leader and effective communicator and and somebody that people learn to trust

[00:31:13] what would you say as the biggest growth that you've made during your tenure at the

[00:31:20] Indian a fever maybe that my the biggest growth is a leader for me was to figure out where

[00:31:33] my influence would matter and so in every other organization where I've been the leader

[00:31:41] I was engaged and involved in each part of the business I wasn't running it I'm not a micro manager

[00:31:46] but I was involved in it when you come into sports you know your coaches responsible for the

[00:31:53] locker room culture that's not my job your coaches responsible for the development of the players

[00:32:03] and the handling all of the issues that happen with you know emotional issues the ups and the

[00:32:09] downs and the coaches responsible for the win-loss record and the trading in pre-agency that's

[00:32:16] all the coaches work it so as a leader I had to quickly understand where was my circle of control

[00:32:25] where was my circle of influence and then what fell outside of those two things and even though

[00:32:32] there were certain things where I thought I might be able to help in this in certain areas just

[00:32:40] based on my experience at my age and people I've worked with in the past it was it was really

[00:32:45] more important for me to realize as a leader where I needed to say a word and more importantly where

[00:32:53] I needed to not say a word and that okay that actually took some time to figure out

[00:32:59] do you mind if I ask you do you have an example one that sticks out maybe of the time when

[00:33:07] you had a reserve yourself to not even though I'm sure you have the answer sheet from all your

[00:33:12] experience right this is what you need to do was there are times that you that really stood out

[00:33:17] when you withheld that yeah I think they're probably several the most current most recent

[00:33:25] probably is they don't when we started the season there was a lot of

[00:33:32] negativity in social media we got off to a good but rough start with our travel schedule I'm playing

[00:33:41] the best teams and we didn't get a good rut we didn't get many wins in the first area and

[00:33:46] oh people were you know tell they wanted everybody fired they wanted everybody traded they went

[00:33:53] and there was a lot of anger in social media in that whole narrative I think in my previous

[00:34:01] jobs I would call together the whole all my staff and we would talk about it and work through it

[00:34:08] but in this job I didn't do that because that was I needed to let my coach

[00:34:15] manage that with the players because she's with them every day and so for me to roll in

[00:34:21] from the as the president rolling and talk to the team I felt like that would have maybe

[00:34:26] I mean it may be in the moment it would have been okay because I do have some experiences

[00:34:30] but then I also think if I'm 22 and I'm a professional athlete it probably would be hard for me

[00:34:36] to think that the president of the franchise understands what I'm going through and so I

[00:34:41] restrained myself from engaging in any of that because I felt like similar to what Gallup teaches us

[00:34:48] about employee engagement that the most important person to an employee is their frontline manager

[00:34:54] it's not the boss or the president or CEO I kind of took that my learning from there thinking

[00:35:00] I also support my coaches and encourage them but that's there that's better for them to navigate

[00:35:07] with the players than me and so I purposely step back yeah that's fantastic example thank you for sharing

[00:35:17] I often say you know especially like sports media sports fans but sports media in particular

[00:35:24] like they're not necessarily incorrect but it's incomplete you know you can't judge an entire season

[00:35:31] by one and seven record and like I was I like coach sides a lot I think she's a good communicator

[00:35:39] and the the vitro that would just come at her from like the start of the season that said

[00:35:44] and that's what I tried to teach my kids I said they're not necessarily wrong

[00:35:48] I said this not incorrect I said but it's incomplete like you have the patience and let it

[00:35:53] and let it be able to play out well when I worked at the Pentagon where we were getting ready to

[00:36:00] go into afghanistan the secretary of defense flew around all the countries around afghanistan

[00:36:07] to lay the groundwork I mean it's interesting how much goes in I was surprised by how much planning

[00:36:12] goes into an attack so to kind of you know strengthen the allies and there was one country I

[00:36:20] can all I say this because it was in the media years later but there was one country that said

[00:36:25] to the secretary of room so we will let you put your planes on our landing strip because it's closer

[00:36:31] to afghanistan we'll let you put your planes here but in the media we're going to criticize your attack

[00:36:38] because for our stability in our region we have to be against you but behind the scenes you

[00:36:45] could put your planes here and I remember that's when I realized like but what people see is face

[00:36:54] value there's usually more to the story it's and that I think that's when I really learned to say

[00:37:02] it's complicated so you know even this countries against america and I couldn't say anything at

[00:37:08] the time because it wasn't public but this country is even against america it's like our planes

[00:37:12] are on their air fields they're not but it's so it's complicated and I think that's probably the

[00:37:18] most generous way to look at politics today to look at local government to look at corporate

[00:37:25] america to look at sports it's complicated it's so simple for us to go you know what they

[00:37:31] ought to do you know I get emails all the time you ought to do this you coach ought to do this

[00:37:35] and it's like okay I'd appreciate I do appreciate the fandom and the passion but these are

[00:37:42] complicated things we're talking about people you know we're not making widgets right I would

[00:37:48] title our podcast you know what y'all to do but I had the strength coach from the Cleveland Browns

[00:37:53] and that was that was the title of his because he would get it all the time you know what you need to do

[00:37:58] yeah yes that was the best training for this job as I used to be a first grade school teacher

[00:38:04] and when you tell somebody you're a teacher they immediately tell you what's wrong with the education

[00:38:10] system and what teachers need to do today and what I learned from that experience Rob is people have

[00:38:16] opinions about teachers and they all had teachers they all went through the education system so they've

[00:38:26] what they believe to be an informed opinion and I'm not just agreeing with it but if I say

[00:38:32] a neuroscientist nobody says to me you know what's wrong with your industry you know what you

[00:38:37] do you know so so to go from teaching and having everybody share their opinions and oftentimes

[00:38:44] good ones I'm not even against what people are sharing it's just your in a field that welcomes

[00:38:51] almost invites a lot of people to share their opinion I think sports is very similar people are very

[00:38:56] passionate about their teams and what they want to see happen and I welcome it yeah so number 22

[00:39:05] joins the Cleveland Clark effect which is it's been fascinating I mean you sold out 100

[00:39:12] cents he's in ticket inventory I mean total attendance but it helped the entire league

[00:39:17] I feel the entire landscape of sports in general but I mean from your standpoint

[00:39:27] and again I mean I could run out the stats I mean I always liked I think the beer stats was

[00:39:32] pretty fantastic yeah beer sales up like 1500% but from your standpoint what what was it about

[00:39:41] a her and that effect that really stood out to you what stands out to me is her Caitlyn's

[00:39:54] inspiration attraction fandom that cuts across every demographic you know I've been very

[00:40:01] disciplined about not comparing Caitlyn to anyone because she is one of a kind period

[00:40:06] and what you see is what you get and I've never met anyone like Caitlyn and I've met a lot of people

[00:40:12] a lot of really successful people I've never met anyone like Caitlyn so I'm happy and humble

[00:40:18] thrilled that she's in Indiana because it seems like a good fit for her and it's a great fit for us

[00:40:24] for sure but you know people will say to me oh gosh she's like the Beatles and I'll say

[00:40:31] nope because your grandparents didn't like the Beatles because they had long hair

[00:40:36] like you can't I go into a marina yesterday I helped escort out a woman who was in her

[00:40:46] 90s and then I saw another woman who had made a sign it was her 70th seventh birthday and she was

[00:40:52] at the fever game that was her birthday gift to be at the fever game and then a young girl who's

[00:40:59] finding bone cancer and her parents asked if we could help navigate away for her to be at the

[00:41:04] game yesterday and then another girl who's parents flew in from Alaska, Alaska so she could see

[00:41:13] Caitlyn play and be there at the game and then the little kids that are there and the little

[00:41:19] boys that shoot baskets and say I'm shooting like Caitlyn this is a phenomenon that is unprecedented

[00:41:26] and it is exciting to me I love the game of basketball but it so there's more to it than that

[00:41:35] but it's just exciting to me that there's something about Caitlyn's game or character

[00:41:40] her personality, her drive and competitive spirit that has captured the attention of

[00:41:48] you know just every people group and it's really awesome yeah so you said you never I mean

[00:41:58] because you've met thousands of thousands of people something for general is I mean very powerful

[00:42:01] people you've never met anybody like her never because everyone who's been successful

[00:42:07] I mean I had Dr. Connolly Surreyser practice the other day, you know we'd

[00:42:13] paid Manning was at the event for the ESP and so everything in between David Letterman was at our

[00:42:19] game the other night and so was Simone Biles at the same game it's like this is unprecedented

[00:42:24] but the thing about it is a lot of people over time grow into

[00:42:33] amazing athlete that attracts this kind of attention Caitlyn was doing in college

[00:42:39] and then transitions to the professional space seamlessly and so if you look at her and just even

[00:42:48] her media ability and her communication style you know it's just I don't know I've never met a

[00:42:55] 22 year old that has that depth of skill and ability at that age with that pressure

[00:43:04] at the you know the world is watching wrap I was in North West Indiana small small North West

[00:43:11] Indiana I'm a very home from Chicago I always stopped there to get their lemon rice soup best lemon

[00:43:16] rice soup in the sake the owner of the restaurant saw my logo he goes oh have you ever been to a

[00:43:21] fever game I said well yeah actually I ain't out and I was shocked he knew our logo because that's

[00:43:27] the Chicago market so they would not even see our games he said to me would you say hi to my father

[00:43:34] and I said sure he called his dad on FaceTime turn the phone around so his dad can meet the

[00:43:40] president of the fever I say hello he said I watch all of your games I love Caitlyn Clark

[00:43:46] so that's okay he goes no I have to stay until 5 in the morning and then I realize I'm talking

[00:43:50] to somebody who lives in Greece this guy's dad lives in Greece stays up watching our games I mean

[00:43:58] this unprecedented global and so for somebody to be able to handle that kind of pressure

[00:44:03] she got great parents terrific team around her great college coaches you know it's just I don't

[00:44:08] know anybody like Caitlyn and I'm really thrilled to know her now it's fantastic I appreciate you sharing

[00:44:14] that with um so again um your 10 year as president of Indiana fever will be concluding

[00:44:23] like you are now um share with us like the division of uh more vella project

[00:44:31] two weeks ago to make a catchings reach out to me and ask me about take a meeting because she's helping

[00:44:36] this organization GTS sports create and design the country's first

[00:44:42] girl sport and leadership complex it's going to be this amazing indoor outdoor facility all the

[00:44:49] sports leadership training fitness mental health really focusing on how do you develop the full

[00:44:58] person of folks and girls the full person of someone who also wants to learn and play sports

[00:45:05] and we're thrilled about this opportunity we're going to put it up by at pharaohs farms

[00:45:10] between Indiana and Chicago it will become a destination location for parents to bring their

[00:45:17] girls to learn about and experience sports and leadership you know we know 92% of women in the

[00:45:25] sea suites of corporate america played sports all the research demonstrates that this is a great

[00:45:33] unrampt to successful living playing sports the thing robbed that I'm really interested in

[00:45:39] according to the CDC three million kids suffer with depression in america three million kids in

[00:45:46] depression three million kids in america struggle with depression according to the cleavely

[00:45:51] clinic one of the one of the best things to mitigate that depression is physical activity

[00:45:59] and when I look at society today I'm very involved in our Indiana mental health round table we're

[00:46:05] doing the important work around raising more visibility bringing more resources, more practitioners

[00:46:11] to the space of helping people cope and deal with mental health issues that are so real

[00:46:17] so that's a that is something I'm putting my hand toward but at the same time I think what

[00:46:22] if we get help younger girls build some tools in their toolbox could we maybe help prevent them

[00:46:31] from struggling with depression and struggling with other issues so to me I and a great group of

[00:46:38] that have been working on this for a couple of years to get it to this point we're going to put

[00:46:43] our hand toward it it's called the Marvella project because Marvella was Senator Birch by's wife

[00:46:50] name his first wife okay and so she was not allowed to go to college because there was no title

[00:46:55] line Marvella was the inspiration for Senator by to push for Title IX so girls could go to college

[00:47:02] and so we're naming the project after her fantastic fantastic no thank you for that

[00:47:12] doc I guess I just have one more question and that is is there any question that should be

[00:47:18] asking that I'm not asking that you know the downside of changing careers and taking on new challenges

[00:47:31] maybe and I think the downside is that I mean I think what I'm speaking to people and I mean now

[00:47:39] move into my ninth career you know you're you the trade-off of changing your job going after new

[00:47:48] things the trade-off is that it makes it difficult to become an expert at anything and so

[00:47:55] you're always learning you're always the freshman in high school you know you go into new

[00:47:58] job you got to figure out where everybody works and where the coffee pot is and I mean you're always

[00:48:04] getting the bottom of the total pull trying to work your way up again and so for me that's a great

[00:48:11] love it and it helps me focus on what's important to me which is leading through humility you know

[00:48:19] I have a humility folder in my desk when I make mistakes I write them down I throw them in my

[00:48:24] humility folder really because that too because I think it's important when you're when you're

[00:48:31] fortunate enough to work hard and have certain opportunities you could almost start to believe your

[00:48:37] own press and you shouldn't because you're a human who's going to make mistakes and you're going

[00:48:43] to knock it right and I think the from type of leadership that appeals to me is one that's honest

[00:48:51] and humble and so my humility folder gets thicker and thicker every year but I think that's

[00:48:58] it's an okay way to pursue you know the things that are important yeah I need to delve just a

[00:49:05] little bit further and that when did you start the humility folder when I worked at the red cross

[00:49:12] my first job was in marketing and it was this program that we talked about and so I was trying to

[00:49:19] figure out a way to get people to know about our program and so the red cross person so all you

[00:49:27] got me with our communication department this is so embarrassed or like Christopher Columbus coming

[00:49:35] from sailing across the ocean like how did you know explore tissue service I mean it is super

[00:49:42] embarrassing that I was I mean I was a second grade first grade second grade teacher so of course I'm

[00:49:47] going to sketch out a little you know pamphlet and I just remember Rob meeting with Carol and Mora

[00:49:53] then they were they had a communication people for the national you know for the micro across

[00:49:59] they were so gentle with me with my little Christopher Columbus sketch and they took it on

[00:50:07] and they're like let us see what we can come up with and then they came back with a brochure that

[00:50:12] was a pharmaceutical brochure which it had to be because this program was pharmaceutical but it was in

[00:50:17] that moment that I I thought okay this is a good time to start so I just started my humility folder

[00:50:24] with that brochure of saying just and I think they taught me so much that I hope I continue to

[00:50:33] make them proud with my approach to people when they bring the ideas that I know aren't good to be honest

[00:50:39] but to like they knew my Christopher Columbus idea was not only now good it was awful and they were

[00:50:55] yeah that memory is in the folder I'm trying to remember I just put some things on them

[00:50:59] I just put three things in my humility folder two weeks ago but I keep shoving stuff in I had

[00:51:04] to have I should pull it out see if it's still in there but the memory that's when it started

[00:51:07] and so the criteria is so if you're just right at out hey I'm a state that you made lesson learned

[00:51:14] and then put it in there yeah huh yeah when I got this job we drafted up our three seas to create

[00:51:21] championship culture commit competing contribute three seas commit be the best best person you

[00:51:27] could be compete for what's important fandom good will winds and losses contribute where are you

[00:51:33] giving back those three things would result in a championship culture maybe never ring maybe now

[00:51:39] championship win but you want to have the win without the culture so I was okay with that we went

[00:51:44] into the locker room we painted the three seas on the locker room wall oh nothing made me happy

[00:51:48] Rob I would go and I'd see those three seas we brought in a new general manager her first

[00:51:53] month on the job she had him painted over painted over the three seas I was like oh you

[00:51:59] wouldn't you just do I didn't say that I love I thought it and she had our marketing department

[00:52:04] put up pictures of all of the female athletes that had played for the fever and won the championship

[00:52:09] and then when I walked in and I saw that I thought oh she knows what she's doing that's inspiring

[00:52:16] that looks like a locker room that's awesome I'm a corporate person every corporation puts

[00:52:21] their vision statements on the wall so that went in my humility folder like don't know you missed

[00:52:26] the boat that the players don't care about your three seas that's not gonna inspire them to go out

[00:52:32] and win today seeing those images of other players that's that's the winning locker room so

[00:52:39] those people represent the three seas like they didn't get there without those three seas

[00:52:43] but that's a that's a recent antimaciality folder hmm that's fantastic

[00:52:50] awesome bar thank you so much really enjoyed this conversation and yeah it's just

[00:52:55] bottom of heart thank you thank you thanks for listening to mental toughness with Dr. Rob Bell

[00:53:21] to find out more about Dr. Rob visit us website at doctorofbell.com or follow him on twitter

[00:53:28] and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of

[00:53:34] mental toughness as soon as it's available thanks for listening and we'll see you next time