Ep. 142 - Pickleball Mindset - Show Me How To Win

[00:00:09] Welcome to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell.

[00:00:13] Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes, executives and expert coaches to talk about

[00:00:18] mental toughness and their hinge moment.

[00:00:21] Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:38] When you wake up and you're tired, right, and you're going for the gold, but you're

[00:00:42] tired, it's really easy to say, ah, I'll sleep in, I'll go for that gold tomorrow.

[00:00:47] But when you wake up and you're like, well, I'm trying to be this person, I'm trying

[00:00:50] to become, like I'm trying to grow internally and become this person that I've talked about

[00:00:55] and written about.

[00:00:56] It's really hard to go back to sleep, right?

[00:00:58] You somehow we find that extra gear when we don't feel like it, when we're trying to

[00:01:04] become somebody rather than do something, right?

[00:01:08] Instead of trying to do the win, let's become the player.

[00:01:11] Let's become the person.

[00:01:12] Rob Bell

[00:01:15] Our guest today on the Mental Toughness Podcast, I've known him for years.

[00:01:18] He's a fellow mental coach and he's transformed his talents past several years into the elite

[00:01:24] world of pickleball, which I feel is just an awesome fit for him.

[00:01:28] And he's one of the top senior pro pickleball players in the country.

[00:01:33] He's written a new book with his co-author, Jill Martin.

[00:01:36] The book is called Pickleball Mindset, the Blueprint for Peak Performance.

[00:01:42] Excited about this conversation today because we'll put some context into the mental

[00:01:45] skills that you can apply.

[00:01:47] But our guest today is Dane Gingrich.

[00:01:49] Dane, my man, good to see you and catch up.

[00:01:52] Dane Gingrich

[00:01:53] Brother, it's been too long, man.

[00:01:54] I really appreciate you having me here.

[00:01:55] I remember years ago you showed up on one of my early podcasts, man.

[00:01:59] I'll never forget that episode.

[00:02:00] I'm glad I could finally jump on with you, man.

[00:02:03] It's a pleasure.

[00:02:04] You're killing it too, by the way.

[00:02:05] Can we just say that?

[00:02:06] You are crushing it.

[00:02:07] I follow everything you do, man.

[00:02:09] Very inspiring.

[00:02:10] Dane Gingrich

[00:02:11] It's just one point at a time, man.

[00:02:13] We don't focus on the win.

[00:02:14] We focus on one point at a time, bud.

[00:02:16] Yes, sir.

[00:02:17] Dane Gingrich

[00:02:18] Let's put some context for the listeners here.

[00:02:20] You and I grew up very similar.

[00:02:22] We didn't watch sports growing up.

[00:02:23] We studied sports.

[00:02:26] I want you to reflect, man.

[00:02:29] Tell us something really unique about you growing up in your relationship with sports,

[00:02:33] either playing or watching with your dad.

[00:02:36] You talk about it in the book a little bit, but what's something unique really stands

[00:02:39] out to you, man?

[00:02:40] Dane Gingrich

[00:02:41] Yeah, man.

[00:02:42] You said it exactly.

[00:02:43] I never sat there and watched it.

[00:02:45] I studied it, right?

[00:02:47] I always remember watching whether it was tennis or it was Magic Johnson versus Larry Bird,

[00:02:54] like or Celtics, right?

[00:02:56] I remember while watching those sports, focusing on what they were doing and what the superstars

[00:03:03] were doing better than the ones that weren't the stars, right?

[00:03:06] My dad and I would sit down and watch them together.

[00:03:10] I remember every time I would watch and I would study and I would break down.

[00:03:14] I don't even know what I was doing it, right?

[00:03:15] It's just something that just instinctively came to me.

[00:03:20] I remember every time I would watch and study and go out and play right away, I would

[00:03:25] always play my best, right?

[00:03:27] I remember winning tournaments not because of the practice necessarily, of course it

[00:03:32] was a practice, but because I remember studying the sport that I was playing,

[00:03:39] right?

[00:03:40] I think not enough people do that today.

[00:03:43] I think we just kind of watch with our eyes and we move on.

[00:03:46] And I remember my dad inspired me beyond, right?

[00:03:52] With talking about how the next level player isn't just playing, but he's dominating

[00:04:00] mentally, right?

[00:04:01] And I've always remembered that from seven years, eight years, nine years old,

[00:04:05] 10 years old growing up, man.

[00:04:07] And the mental game piece every time I was on the court, whether it be tennis

[00:04:10] or basketball, that was the inspiration trying to figure out that puzzle of what

[00:04:16] he meant.

[00:04:16] Like what does he mean?

[00:04:17] What do you mean the mental game?

[00:04:18] Like what is that about?

[00:04:19] Right?

[00:04:20] And that's carried on to today now that I'm years old.

[00:04:25] So again, you were a natural athlete growing up, tennis and basketball.

[00:04:30] When you got to that level then of where you know going to be

[00:04:34] playing in college and stuff like that.

[00:04:36] Where did your journey kind of take you at that time in your life?

[00:04:42] So I mean, so I mean, it's interesting you say it.

[00:04:45] And so it's a long story.

[00:04:46] I'll try to keep it super brief, but like physically in this place perfectly.

[00:04:50] And this is why when I started working with mental performance piece

[00:04:54] that I felt like I had something else to offer, especially because when I

[00:04:59] started, I worked with younger athletes, right?

[00:05:01] And those younger athletes and their parents, you know, junior high high

[00:05:04] school trying to get to that college level, right?

[00:05:06] And I had a story of like failure, right?

[00:05:11] And I had the gifts to play the one basketball.

[00:05:15] I had the gifts.

[00:05:16] I mean, I was doing things.

[00:05:17] I was doing things that six years old that Andre Agassi was getting

[00:05:20] powdered for and on the late, you know, on the late show and Johnny Carson,

[00:05:23] whatever when he was doing at 12, I was doing at six, seven, eight.

[00:05:26] Right.

[00:05:26] So the physical piece was always there, but I blew college scholarships,

[00:05:31] right? I ended up having to go the Juco route not because of my physical

[00:05:35] talents, but because of my lack of mental and emotional regulation.

[00:05:40] And I think like so when, you know, I had to go to the Juco route

[00:05:44] and then the tennis and I wanted to go play basketball and that didn't

[00:05:47] work out for all kinds of reasons.

[00:05:48] And then the tennis route.

[00:05:50] But when I started becoming, you know, working with these

[00:05:53] mental performance athletes, I brought the juice like I brought the

[00:05:58] I brought the cred like I know what it feels like to be mentally unregulated,

[00:06:02] right? Not understanding the power of the emotional and mental strength

[00:06:07] that we need to bring on the court.

[00:06:09] And so when you say college athletics, man, it like it burns a hole in me

[00:06:12] because I should have been a D one athlete.

[00:06:15] And I only wasn't because I didn't understand the part

[00:06:19] that resonates with me so much today that I'm trying to give back

[00:06:23] to to the young and to the older athletes.

[00:06:27] Yeah. So what was like your biggest struggle when you talk about mental

[00:06:30] regulation, like one mistake?

[00:06:31] It would just kind of collapse on you.

[00:06:33] Were you not consistent?

[00:06:34] Like what was the biggest challenge?

[00:06:36] It was full hothead.

[00:06:38] It was full.

[00:06:38] Like I remember running into the UC Santa Barbara basketball coach,

[00:06:42] you know, 10 years after I graduated high school, I was eating

[00:06:45] like a bagel in a coffee shop and he rolled in and I'm like, hey, coach,

[00:06:48] remember me?

[00:06:49] I put up 35 on the dude you were recruiting that night in my gym

[00:06:53] and he only got 12.

[00:06:55] And he said, yeah, man, we were we've been watching you since you

[00:06:57] were sophomore junior, but you were a hothead and we thought you

[00:07:00] would be a terrible teammate.

[00:07:02] We thought you would just be dames for Dane, right?

[00:07:05] And so I could focus Rob like the level of focus I could bring.

[00:07:09] I was disciplined.

[00:07:10] I was disciplined in as far as the workouts that I would put

[00:07:14] dude emotionally.

[00:07:15] I got in a fight with every teammate on every basketball team

[00:07:18] I ever played on tennis.

[00:07:21] I'm jumping nets, literally jumping nuts to fight opponents.

[00:07:25] So it was the emotional regulation that control emotionally

[00:07:29] that kept coaches away.

[00:07:31] Yeah, what since you've had time and space obviously from that,

[00:07:36] what was underneath all that all that rage?

[00:07:39] Fear of fear of letting everybody down.

[00:07:43] I just remember that's a freaking great question, man.

[00:07:48] It was definitely fear of not realizing my potential.

[00:07:53] I hate that freaking word too.

[00:07:56] Like everybody, you know, and they're all doing it out of love

[00:07:59] and I don't blame them. It's on me.

[00:08:00] It's always on us, right?

[00:08:01] The athletes never it's always self accountability.

[00:08:03] But I remember, man, if I don't and they'll be disappointed.

[00:08:06] It was more about them being disappointed than then even me

[00:08:10] being disappointed, right?

[00:08:11] I remember Rob, I remember like in a high school

[00:08:14] all-star basketball game, I starting point guard.

[00:08:16] And I remember somewhere like in the in the beginning of the third quarter,

[00:08:20] I shot a baseline.

[00:08:22] It got clipped, barely got tipped and it airballed.

[00:08:25] But I was so embarrassed that it airballed even though it got tipped.

[00:08:28] I benched myself for the rest of the game.

[00:08:31] Coach, you're in. I said, no, I'm not going in.

[00:08:33] I was so deathly embarrassed and afraid to make myself look worse.

[00:08:40] Right in front of there's a ton of coaches there.

[00:08:44] To that day, to this day, I was 17 to this day.

[00:08:48] Burns a hole in me, right?

[00:08:50] That I was so afraid of being embarrassed

[00:08:54] and letting other people around me down that I couldn't find the

[00:08:57] couldn't find the fight in the grit to just check back in the game.

[00:09:01] I was playing fine and one one tipped airball

[00:09:04] set me over the edge.

[00:09:05] And that says that's my athletic career.

[00:09:07] That's my young athletic career in a hole right there.

[00:09:10] Never had along that journey, never had a coach kind of pull you aside

[00:09:13] and just try and show you.

[00:09:15] No, he's a better way to channel that aggression channel.

[00:09:19] No, no, they screamed and yelled every basketball coach I had.

[00:09:22] And they screamed and yelled right?

[00:09:24] The tennis coaches, I got older.

[00:09:26] I found someone who was who was calm.

[00:09:28] But by that time, I had lost all my scholarships

[00:09:31] and was trying to go a different way.

[00:09:33] But as far as basketball, it was old school was in the 80s, right?

[00:09:36] And people were the guys would grab your jersey.

[00:09:38] He would bench you after one mistake.

[00:09:40] Right. And that was a big thing too.

[00:09:41] Right. I didn't respond to that type of coaching either,

[00:09:45] which is something I tried never to do with athletes today.

[00:09:48] I just don't think it works long term.

[00:09:50] It might shake your short term, but I never responded to that.

[00:09:53] And it made me even more fearful if I knew I was going to get benched.

[00:09:56] I knew I was going to get screamed at in my face like a freaking drill sergeant.

[00:10:00] Yeah. Well, I think it's cool because you become the coach

[00:10:03] that you've always needed, I guess.

[00:10:06] And you can coach that you wish you had at that time.

[00:10:11] Yeah, I think it resonates, right?

[00:10:13] I mean, I think this is why, like, and I know this is, this is, you know,

[00:10:18] I'm not interviewing you, but what I do know about you,

[00:10:20] you went through some stuff too that makes you relatable

[00:10:23] and gives you such street cred, too.

[00:10:25] And I believe when I always said it, too, because I always said,

[00:10:28] like, if I can get in front of the parent or if I can get in front of the athlete,

[00:10:32] right, like it's over. It's done because you're going to know that I know.

[00:10:35] You're going to know that I feel you.

[00:10:37] I feel your pain. I feel your frustration.

[00:10:39] And that's, you know, I don't think we can be great coaches if we don't

[00:10:45] if we can't feel internally what we're trying to coach, you know.

[00:10:52] Hey, good looking.

[00:10:53] If you like this podcast and are already a badass,

[00:10:57] but it's all way too complicated, then visit our website, DrRobBell.com

[00:11:02] and schedule a call with us to help capture your very own hinge moment.

[00:11:11] When you bring that up, it just kind of makes me reflect a little bit on

[00:11:14] my coach and stuff like that.

[00:11:15] Like I've been out there in performance situations, having no idea

[00:11:21] how I'm possibly going to make par on this whole.

[00:11:25] Right. And golf is, I mean,

[00:11:27] golf is probably the worst of my sports I competed, you know what I mean?

[00:11:30] But it's like,

[00:11:34] yeah, when you are especially like individual sports, too,

[00:11:37] it's interesting, right?

[00:11:38] Because I mean, individual sports,

[00:11:41] there's there's there's nowhere to go, man.

[00:11:43] There's nowhere to hide.

[00:11:43] And as you know, as Ken Revisas said, and I use this often,

[00:11:46] like you're naked in front of the gods, right?

[00:11:48] Like you are naked in front of the gods.

[00:11:50] And that's where, you know,

[00:11:52] just so much is aligned on that preparation and the mental skills

[00:11:56] that you've put into it at that time.

[00:11:57] And that's that's what's going to that's what's going to show up, you know?

[00:12:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:12:03] Let's delve into the book, man.

[00:12:05] OK.

[00:12:06] I thought it was a fantastic book.

[00:12:08] Pick a ball mindset, the blueprint for peak performance.

[00:12:11] And you kind of talk about it's like this just isn't for like how to improve

[00:12:14] your racket angle, but this is obviously the mental game book.

[00:12:17] I think you need, you know, surprisingly, man,

[00:12:19] it's like the pickleball craze like seen it come.

[00:12:22] I've still never got into it.

[00:12:24] And it's not because I didn't want to.

[00:12:27] It's because I've just stayed in my lane of ultra running and golf, man.

[00:12:31] And I'm like, because I played I played tennis and I played ping pong

[00:12:36] and pretty good at both those.

[00:12:38] I think I'd be pretty good and I can move, you know, I can lateral move.

[00:12:41] And I'm an athlete.

[00:12:43] And you'd be good and you're mentally pretty, pretty strong.

[00:12:45] I imagine. Yeah, man.

[00:12:46] But just watching you out there and watching the impact you make,

[00:12:50] I mean, it's it's so cool.

[00:12:53] But I just need to put that that set aside there that reading the book

[00:12:57] made so much sense in terms of how you take this mental skill

[00:13:00] and how do you apply it?

[00:13:02] One of the first things you talk about in the book, though,

[00:13:05] was your own personal journey when you were on a quest for double gold

[00:13:10] in nationals and Indian Wells.

[00:13:15] You end up winning, you win.

[00:13:18] And then you talked about the experience like immediately after that.

[00:13:22] I was wondering if you could just kind of pick up that story

[00:13:24] and take us down that and we could talk about that.

[00:13:27] Yeah, I mean, I think it's I think it's something number one.

[00:13:29] I don't think athletes talk about it enough because I think

[00:13:33] I think it probably they're afraid that it makes them look weak, right?

[00:13:36] Tough athletes would be tough.

[00:13:38] Yeah, I've been studying. I've been grinding.

[00:13:39] I've been grinding like no sleep all that right now.

[00:13:42] This is I deserve this.

[00:13:44] Yeah, my very first my very first nationals

[00:13:47] that was all I was thinking about was the medal, right?

[00:13:50] And just training for the medal and I got the medal.

[00:13:54] I remember winning the first men's event and I like I had it

[00:13:57] like I literally had tears coming down my eyes after a match

[00:14:01] for the very first time it's ever happened to me in any sport.

[00:14:03] Grabbed my partner because my partner at the time had like 100 of them.

[00:14:06] Right. And you know, and he was like, man, we got you your first

[00:14:09] and I've been being so happy and then went to the hotel.

[00:14:12] Everything was good, but it was like mixed.

[00:14:14] The mixed event was the next day, so there was no letdown.

[00:14:17] So I got let's go win the double gold for mixed too.

[00:14:21] And we grinded and we ended up pulling it pulling it out.

[00:14:24] And again, that same thing tear came down, right?

[00:14:27] Like my partner won triple crown.

[00:14:29] She won singles, mixed and women's doubles.

[00:14:31] So there was an extra added bonus there.

[00:14:34] But but that high quickly disappeared like what I say quickly

[00:14:38] by the time I got in the car, it was starting to fade.

[00:14:43] And I couldn't understand why and then I remember getting to the hotel

[00:14:46] and I talk about this in the book too, that that I remember doing my

[00:14:50] post tournament cool down session.

[00:14:53] Right. It takes me like two hours to do.

[00:14:55] And I just started feeling empty.

[00:14:58] Like wait a minute, Rob, like I just won double gold, bro.

[00:15:01] Like this is literally since January one.

[00:15:04] This is all I've been focusing on and I did it.

[00:15:07] It should feel better than this.

[00:15:08] And I felt completely empty and I'm in a hotel by myself,

[00:15:13] totally alone, both literally physically and emotionally.

[00:15:18] And I was floored like this is supposed to feel better.

[00:15:22] This is what all the athletes talk about, right?

[00:15:24] All the professional athletes talk about all the championship rings

[00:15:26] and their legacy and being the goat and all the other stuff

[00:15:30] that we talk about externally.

[00:15:32] Dude, I hit it. I hit the goals.

[00:15:34] We did it and like I just started balling like a little baby in the hotel.

[00:15:39] We're not understanding why after all of this work and after the win

[00:15:42] because the wins weren't easy like mentally, they were really difficult.

[00:15:46] So on one hand, I was super proud that mentally and emotionally

[00:15:49] and figured it out like we figured the puzzle out.

[00:15:52] We could have lost both of them, but you know, my partner and I

[00:15:54] figured out the puzzle and we were just that much better mentally in the end.

[00:15:58] Right. And so I should be like cracking open, cracking open champagne

[00:16:02] and celebrating the year long win.

[00:16:05] And it was the total opposite, Rob, like, and you know, right?

[00:16:09] And the reason why is because I was prioritizing the wrong thing, right?

[00:16:15] Was prioritizing the frickin stupid win, the metal, the outcome,

[00:16:20] the accolades, the social media write ups, the newspaper write ups,

[00:16:24] all of that versus like the grind, right?

[00:16:29] And the process and the journey along the way.

[00:16:31] Like that should always because as they say, right?

[00:16:35] I know we've all heard it, right?

[00:16:36] But when you get to the top of mountain, the top of mountain

[00:16:38] isn't the top of the mountain.

[00:16:39] There's always another tip top and I never understood and understood it consciously.

[00:16:43] I've never like emotionally felt what I had felt that night.

[00:16:47] And I was floored, man, blown away.

[00:16:50] I could feel that bad after I could feel that bad

[00:16:52] after having such an amazing couple of days.

[00:16:55] Yeah. And I'm so glad you put that in the book because in a light year, right?

[00:16:59] Man, the.

[00:17:01] The mountaintop moments, right?

[00:17:02] They don't last.

[00:17:03] We have to come back down off that mountain and they're really just

[00:17:05] false summits anyway, right?

[00:17:07] It's not really the top.

[00:17:08] It's a different mountain we have to get.

[00:17:09] But I mean, you know, Olympic medalists, man, if I've talked to them,

[00:17:12] right, and they said, you know, I feels great.

[00:17:16] I thought it'd feel different or one of the worst is OK, Dane.

[00:17:21] All right, man, what's next?

[00:17:23] Right. Like what now, right?

[00:17:25] Right. Like.

[00:17:27] So I think that part is so important because it is about the journey.

[00:17:31] It in you talk about really well in the book, man, it's not focused on

[00:17:36] the winds, but focused on who you want to become.

[00:17:40] How did you lay that out in the book then to help other athletes

[00:17:43] that are going to be going down that same journey?

[00:17:45] Yeah. So so now right now that I learned that hard lesson

[00:17:50] now and, you know, I work with an athlete or even with myself,

[00:17:53] I have to do this too.

[00:17:54] Like I reverse engineer it, right?

[00:17:56] We want to reverse engineer instead of from the gold medal

[00:17:59] or the first place, whatever.

[00:18:02] Like I reverse engineer now who you want.

[00:18:05] What what is who you want to become look like?

[00:18:09] What does he or she feel like and not like muscly, not like physically,

[00:18:14] but internally, what do you want?

[00:18:16] He, you know, what do you want yourself to become?

[00:18:21] While you're because the reason I love to reverse engineer

[00:18:25] from who you want to become is then when we come back to our day to day

[00:18:29] training, that training feels different.

[00:18:31] Right. I'm not just after the win.

[00:18:33] I'm after becoming somebody better, like better than, you know,

[00:18:37] better than I could have imagined just externally.

[00:18:40] Right. And and we lay it out from that from that spot.

[00:18:43] Reverse engineer.

[00:18:44] Like what does she feel like?

[00:18:46] What does she look like? What is it?

[00:18:47] What is it? Like how does the walk change and just kind of opening up

[00:18:51] your mind from that, from that vision backwards to okay, now after

[00:18:56] you've kind of laid that out, like what are your training?

[00:18:59] What are your training days now feel like that you're instead

[00:19:03] of trying to grab the gold, you're trying to become this

[00:19:06] different person from the inside out.

[00:19:09] Right. And man, when you do that every day.

[00:19:12] So when you do that, when you wake up and you're tired, right?

[00:19:15] And you're going for the gold, but you're tired.

[00:19:17] It's really easy to say, I'll sleep in, I'll go for that goal tomorrow.

[00:19:22] But when you wake up and you're like, well, I'm trying to be this person.

[00:19:25] I'm trying to become like I'm trying to I'm trying to grow internally

[00:19:28] and become this person that I've talked about and written about.

[00:19:31] It's really hard to go back to sleep.

[00:19:33] Right. You somehow we find that extra gear when we don't feel like it

[00:19:38] when we're trying to become somebody rather than do something.

[00:19:43] And that's kind of how I, you know, Jill and I kind of separated that piece.

[00:19:46] Right. Instead of trying to do the win, let's become the player.

[00:19:50] Let's become the person and not just the play.

[00:19:52] Let's let's become the dad.

[00:19:54] Let's become the mom.

[00:19:55] Let's become the brother sister.

[00:19:56] Right. Like what does that player look like?

[00:19:58] Because this book isn't just for professional.

[00:20:00] I mean, I mean amateurs, amateurs, professionals,

[00:20:04] pickleball players, tennis players, golfers.

[00:20:06] It's all the same.

[00:20:07] And last time I checked, right, we're either a man or like we're a husband,

[00:20:11] wife, brother, sister, like, like what does that person look like?

[00:20:16] And when I started training like that and kind of teaching that everything

[00:20:21] changed, everything changed in the book.

[00:20:28] You talk about pre acceptance of what you can control.

[00:20:33] So.

[00:20:36] Focus on what you can control, what you can't control.

[00:20:40] And then obviously what you can influence.

[00:20:41] But you talk about pre acceptance, which I thought was a wonderful

[00:20:45] illustration to the point.

[00:20:47] Yeah. Talk to us about that, how that mindset heading into training

[00:20:53] and heading into competition.

[00:20:55] You know, what does that mean?

[00:20:56] And how does it play out?

[00:20:58] So I like I like that.

[00:20:59] I like to really kind of prioritize pre acceptance before we before

[00:21:04] we do anything training wise or competition wise, because.

[00:21:08] Pre accept means anything's possible during that competition.

[00:21:12] Anything's possible during our training.

[00:21:14] Like it literally could be our best day or worst day.

[00:21:16] The wind is too, it's too windy.

[00:21:18] It's too hot.

[00:21:18] It's too cold when we pre accept all of the things that are out

[00:21:22] of our control, it's so much easier to kind of rain in what we do

[00:21:27] have control over, right?

[00:21:28] Cause cause you know, I'm preaching to the choir here and and

[00:21:32] like it's fun talking to you because you ask the question.

[00:21:36] You already know the answer before I asked you the question.

[00:21:38] Like when you can rain in the things that you can control, it

[00:21:42] takes away so much of the unnecessary stress that we place

[00:21:46] upon ourselves during the competition, right?

[00:21:48] So the pre acceptance is about releasing those things that

[00:21:54] you literally have zero control over the sun, the wind, your

[00:21:58] opponent's performance, your partner's performance.

[00:22:01] If you're playing doubles in a sport, right?

[00:22:03] Like, like you hit a perfect putt on the golf course, man, you

[00:22:06] hit the perfect putt and after that, after the ball leaves

[00:22:09] your putt or that gets them a it's in the golfing gods hands

[00:22:12] now could it a spike market, get it a pitch mark, you get

[00:22:14] it the perfect putt and it still might not find the whole

[00:22:18] right?

[00:22:18] So if we pre accept that all of those things can happen, it

[00:22:23] releases the stress of having to win or having to play our best

[00:22:27] or we have to do X that the things that we can't control.

[00:22:31] And so I think pre acceptance is another kind of game changer.

[00:22:35] I don't think another enough athletes kind of set the tone

[00:22:38] with that, not only in their training, but their

[00:22:40] competition, right?

[00:22:41] Like, I think setting the tone with I'm going to

[00:22:43] re pre accept X, Y and Z and just let my training take

[00:22:48] over.

[00:22:48] I mean, it'll it'll it'll change you.

[00:22:50] And then when you do that, then you you also tap into this

[00:22:53] next level of, you know, becoming that player, right?

[00:22:56] It just takes away all of those uncontrollables.

[00:23:00] Yeah.

[00:23:01] I talk about with a lot with my athletes.

[00:23:03] I always talk about that there's three things that are

[00:23:05] going to happen.

[00:23:06] Three things.

[00:23:08] Number one, you're going to play really well.

[00:23:10] Number one, you're going to play bad.

[00:23:13] And number two, you're going to play okay.

[00:23:15] Right.

[00:23:16] I said, you're going to probably put in one of those

[00:23:18] three kind of categories.

[00:23:19] But then we then we do what you talk about what you

[00:23:22] coach, right?

[00:23:23] We got to unpack that a little bit in terms of, hey,

[00:23:25] what is it that you really want to commit to?

[00:23:29] Because it's again, it's not about the outcome, but

[00:23:31] it's like, man, I just want to commit to my shots.

[00:23:33] You know, I just want to move on from mistakes.

[00:23:35] Because I think with the mental game, like you

[00:23:37] can have one of these goals that you can really

[00:23:39] focus on, but it's got to be a mental game goal.

[00:23:41] If it's not, I don't I'd love your opinion.

[00:23:44] I just don't think it happens because now

[00:23:46] we're succumbed to how well we're performing.

[00:23:48] You know, you have to have that front and center.

[00:23:51] Right.

[00:23:51] I totally agree.

[00:23:52] Yeah.

[00:23:52] I'm sorry.

[00:23:53] I interrupt you.

[00:23:54] I totally agree with you.

[00:23:56] Right.

[00:23:56] And I've always said from day one, right, that we

[00:23:59] can master our mental game, like we can perform

[00:24:01] today mentally, we can perform perfectly.

[00:24:05] Why?

[00:24:05] And people like people, you can't know perfection

[00:24:08] is not attainable.

[00:24:09] Well, maybe physical perfection is not attainable,

[00:24:11] but mental perfection is why?

[00:24:13] Because it's in with it's within our control.

[00:24:15] Like our mental game is 100% within our control

[00:24:19] when we learn to focus on those things we have

[00:24:22] control over.

[00:24:23] Right.

[00:24:23] And so, yes, I 100% agree with you that let's

[00:24:27] make let's make our mental game goals.

[00:24:30] Right.

[00:24:31] The focus because all the all the external

[00:24:34] stuff, I'm going to shoot this number in a golf

[00:24:35] tournament.

[00:24:36] I'm going to I'm going to win, you know, I'm

[00:24:37] going to win this gold and a pickleball

[00:24:39] tournament.

[00:24:39] I'm going to win double gold or triple gold,

[00:24:41] whatever, like it's totally out of our like show

[00:24:43] me how to win.

[00:24:44] I always I love saying it, show me how to win.

[00:24:46] And they show me a shot.

[00:24:47] You didn't show me how to win.

[00:24:48] You just show me how to hit a good shot.

[00:24:49] It might have won you to match or not.

[00:24:51] I don't know, but you just show me how to

[00:24:52] get a shot.

[00:24:53] You can't show me how to win.

[00:24:54] You can show me other things.

[00:24:56] You can control the other things.

[00:24:57] And so since you can't control that win,

[00:25:00] let's focus on, let's focus on those things

[00:25:02] that you can and let's put all of your

[00:25:05] energy onto those, those mental goals.

[00:25:09] You know, there's always a point in the

[00:25:10] podcast where we kind of title the podcast.

[00:25:13] And I think you just did it right there.

[00:25:14] Man, show me show me how to win, baby.

[00:25:17] There it is, baby.

[00:25:18] There it is done.

[00:25:19] The end, which is dropping it.

[00:25:21] I get to drop the mic already.

[00:25:22] It's here, man.

[00:25:27] You know, the visualization piece you talk

[00:25:28] about in the book and that's obviously huge for

[00:25:30] you.

[00:25:30] I mean, you do the same type of

[00:25:32] visualization that I do before competitions.

[00:25:35] I, you know, you go back by yourself,

[00:25:37] put the tower of your head, man, and just

[00:25:39] play it out.

[00:25:39] And as a coach, right, you emphasize, hey,

[00:25:42] man, what does it look like?

[00:25:43] What's it feel like?

[00:25:44] Talk to us about that as a coach.

[00:25:46] How are you coaching that visualization piece?

[00:25:49] Yeah, I mean, I wish more athletes would

[00:25:52] would prioritize this as much as their

[00:25:55] physical warmups and their physical

[00:25:57] focuses because I just don't think

[00:25:59] it's been talked about for so many years,

[00:26:01] right? And it's proven now.

[00:26:03] It's not, it's not just a day in or a

[00:26:05] rob opinion.

[00:26:06] It is proven that visualization, the

[00:26:09] brain doesn't know the difference,

[00:26:10] right? Like when you emotionally connect

[00:26:13] to a visual.

[00:26:13] And so I make this as much of a priority

[00:26:16] before, I mean, even before I train,

[00:26:18] I will focus on the things that I want

[00:26:20] to accomplish and how I want to look

[00:26:23] in my drilling sessions.

[00:26:24] But I think the visualization taking,

[00:26:27] I mean, for me, it's a it's a 15 20

[00:26:29] minute thing, but but I'm a freak that

[00:26:31] I like I just feel like I could do it

[00:26:33] for an hour.

[00:26:33] But for most athletes, I think five

[00:26:36] to 10 to 15 minutes of just sitting

[00:26:38] and really diving deep

[00:26:42] into the performance that you want to

[00:26:43] see. And I always say like the

[00:26:46] greatest thing about visualization is

[00:26:48] we can be perfect.

[00:26:49] But we never have to make a mistake in

[00:26:51] our visualizations ever.

[00:26:52] There's no reason to, right?

[00:26:54] And with that

[00:26:56] opportunity to be perfect in our

[00:26:58] mindset, not only with how we're

[00:27:00] physically executing,

[00:27:02] but how we're emotionally regulating

[00:27:04] and how we're showing up for

[00:27:06] ourselves and our partner, right?

[00:27:07] And how we're also right.

[00:27:09] I like to I like to focus on visual

[00:27:11] is a visual visualizing how my

[00:27:14] opponents view me, like how

[00:27:16] I'm showing up. What's that making

[00:27:17] them feel like and getting into

[00:27:19] their emotional, you know, make up

[00:27:21] as well. We can go as deep as we

[00:27:23] want with that.

[00:27:24] But it but it plays a huge role

[00:27:26] in what I feel like I'm closing

[00:27:27] my eyes now instinctively.

[00:27:28] Sorry, like it's probably not good

[00:27:29] for the pot.

[00:27:30] But like when I visualize

[00:27:33] it it sets a tone.

[00:27:35] It makes me feel so

[00:27:37] so I do it. I do all my physical

[00:27:39] dynamic first and then I time it

[00:27:41] to where I have anywhere between

[00:27:42] 10 and 20 minutes before I know

[00:27:44] I'm going to go out and play.

[00:27:46] And when I'm done with that, I

[00:27:48] just feel I feel like I've played

[00:27:50] and that's the power of it, right?

[00:27:51] I feel like I have already played

[00:27:53] that match to perfection.

[00:27:55] And I always end the visualizations

[00:27:57] with with winning the match.

[00:27:59] The last point is on my paddle,

[00:28:01] but not for the win, but for the

[00:28:03] celebration and the emotional

[00:28:04] connection to

[00:28:06] to to the to all the

[00:28:08] the process that it took to get

[00:28:10] there, right?

[00:28:11] And and so I make it a priority.

[00:28:14] I just wish more athletes would

[00:28:15] dive in and make this their

[00:28:17] priority because it would it will

[00:28:19] absolutely as you know,

[00:28:21] change your physical performance.

[00:28:24] But it takes work, man.

[00:28:26] I just think what I

[00:28:28] I just think it's easier to

[00:28:30] to go bench press to go

[00:28:31] lunge to go squirm, excuse

[00:28:33] me, to go squat to go run

[00:28:34] sprint to do the physical thing

[00:28:36] because you can see right there

[00:28:37] within a week, two weeks, three

[00:28:39] weeks, you can see the physical

[00:28:40] strength. You can see the results

[00:28:42] with the mental piece.

[00:28:43] It's so difficult, as you know,

[00:28:45] because we can't guarantee

[00:28:47] how long it's going to take

[00:28:49] before you feel

[00:28:51] the difference in your physical

[00:28:52] makeup, right? And you and even

[00:28:54] worse, you might play.

[00:28:56] You might step back, right?

[00:28:58] You might play worse first.

[00:28:59] And most likely you will

[00:29:01] because you're kind of

[00:29:02] reframing how you think

[00:29:03] about your sport, how you think

[00:29:05] about yourself and who you're

[00:29:06] becoming. So with that process,

[00:29:08] also, you're going to probably take

[00:29:09] a couple steps back before you

[00:29:11] start executing better.

[00:29:13] People don't like that, right?

[00:29:14] People want to throw their popcorn

[00:29:16] in the microwave and have it done

[00:29:17] in 45 seconds.

[00:29:18] And so getting to the gym,

[00:29:19] getting faster, getting quicker,

[00:29:20] getting stronger, that's easy.

[00:29:21] I can see that.

[00:29:23] But the visualization, does it

[00:29:25] really work, Rob?

[00:29:26] Does it really work?

[00:29:27] Because I did it twice

[00:29:29] and I didn't play any better.

[00:29:30] I mean, that's that's the kind

[00:29:32] of the reframing that

[00:29:34] we have to have to do.

[00:29:36] So it takes a lot of work, it

[00:29:37] takes a lot of discipline, but the

[00:29:38] athletes, right?

[00:29:39] Kobe's my favorite athlete.

[00:29:40] Like that dude is like he's giving

[00:29:42] you the blueprint.

[00:29:43] It always blows.

[00:29:44] I know I'm like taking over your

[00:29:45] job.

[00:29:45] Do it, man.

[00:29:47] It always blows my mind when

[00:29:49] an athlete gives you the

[00:29:51] blueprint, he has shown you the

[00:29:52] answers and you still resist

[00:29:55] to follow it.

[00:29:56] It blows my mind.

[00:29:58] Kobe's done it in that world.

[00:30:00] Ben Johns has done it in our

[00:30:02] world and the pickleball world.

[00:30:04] And I just to the best of my 50

[00:30:06] plus year old ability, just try

[00:30:08] to follow that blueprint.

[00:30:09] He has given you the answers.

[00:30:11] Just follow it like but it takes

[00:30:14] work, man.

[00:30:14] It just takes work and that's

[00:30:16] why people don't know they

[00:30:18] refuse Jesus too, man.

[00:30:20] That's that's also an answer.

[00:30:22] That's that's also an answer.

[00:30:25] Yeah.

[00:30:26] Yeah.

[00:30:27] How did it help you specifically

[00:30:28] the visualization piece when

[00:30:29] you were injured?

[00:30:30] Because I thought that was a

[00:30:31] great part of the book.

[00:30:32] Yeah, that was so that

[00:30:34] that's awesome too.

[00:30:34] Like so when I was injured and

[00:30:37] took all the time visualizing

[00:30:38] three, four, four months, like

[00:30:39] it felt like I was practicing.

[00:30:41] I can so like literally every

[00:30:43] day, number one, it helped my

[00:30:44] discipline and helped me stay

[00:30:46] disciplined.

[00:30:46] Like I got to show up for

[00:30:47] training like this was

[00:30:48] training.

[00:30:49] There was a lot of rolling,

[00:30:50] stretching rehab physical

[00:30:52] stuff.

[00:30:52] But like I had to leave time

[00:30:54] twice a day at least twice

[00:30:55] today, tricking as much as I

[00:30:57] could to show up for the

[00:30:58] visualization training.

[00:31:00] And so number one, it helped

[00:31:01] with that the discipline piece

[00:31:02] and the commitment piece and

[00:31:04] the how like how bad you say

[00:31:05] you're talking all this stuff

[00:31:06] but how like how are you

[00:31:08] what will you really do for

[00:31:11] it?

[00:31:11] Right.

[00:31:11] Because a lot of you know, we

[00:31:12] heard great coaches in the

[00:31:13] past that I don't care what

[00:31:14] you want.

[00:31:15] But what you want is irrelevant

[00:31:16] or what are you willing to

[00:31:17] do for what you want?

[00:31:18] So it set that tone.

[00:31:20] But then when I was healthy

[00:31:22] again, I came back on the

[00:31:23] court and do my thing.

[00:31:24] Of course I was a little

[00:31:25] rusty, but I'm telling you

[00:31:27] like I didn't feel like I

[00:31:28] had months off.

[00:31:29] It's like every day in my mind

[00:31:31] I was seeing it perfectly.

[00:31:32] I was just seeing every last

[00:31:34] detail of the shot and the

[00:31:36] point and I would play games

[00:31:37] out in entire matches out.

[00:31:39] And I would get so addicted to

[00:31:41] it because it felt so good.

[00:31:42] I would start playing tournaments

[00:31:43] out in my mind.

[00:31:44] I play one entire match as I

[00:31:46] had all day.

[00:31:47] I haven't do it was pandemic

[00:31:49] there was nothing to do right?

[00:31:50] And until by the time I

[00:31:52] step back on a court, I felt

[00:31:54] like I'd been training for

[00:31:55] months.

[00:31:56] Yeah, that's the wiring right?

[00:31:58] That's the wiring.

[00:31:59] You're your co-author,

[00:32:01] Jill Martin.

[00:32:01] I mean, she was an attorney,

[00:32:03] highly successful COVID hit.

[00:32:05] She has to leave that world

[00:32:07] of mother as well.

[00:32:09] And then she becomes

[00:32:09] successful in pickleball as

[00:32:11] well.

[00:32:11] And one of those grinders

[00:32:13] that doesn't even dabble

[00:32:15] into the mental game piece

[00:32:16] right just focuses so much on

[00:32:18] her strengths, which is great.

[00:32:21] Right? It takes you so far.

[00:32:22] Yeah.

[00:32:23] And then you all exchange

[00:32:24] services in terms of you

[00:32:25] help her with their mind

[00:32:26] says she helps you with

[00:32:28] you know, your body because it

[00:32:29] is aging and her being a

[00:32:31] transformed yoga instructor.

[00:32:34] Walk us through just that.

[00:32:35] How did you help her with the

[00:32:37] visualization piece?

[00:32:38] Like what did you notice

[00:32:39] that she really took from that?

[00:32:42] That's that's a heck of a

[00:32:43] question.

[00:32:43] Yeah, Jill physically, mentally,

[00:32:46] you know, in her in her past

[00:32:48] life of being an attorney,

[00:32:49] as you mentioned, like she

[00:32:49] was just to kill it right?

[00:32:50] Like she do with a smile,

[00:32:52] but she was a worker.

[00:32:53] She was a grinder.

[00:32:54] So physically when she decided

[00:32:56] to become, you know, committed

[00:32:59] to this game, right?

[00:33:00] Like she's on the wall every day.

[00:33:01] She's just she's doing everything.

[00:33:02] She's doing she's working harder

[00:33:03] than most professionals.

[00:33:04] I'm telling you, I'm not even joking.

[00:33:05] She was one Saturday morning

[00:33:08] and like, where are you?

[00:33:09] She's like, I'm on a wall

[00:33:10] in like the school.

[00:33:11] I'm in a wall and the freaking

[00:33:13] elementary school hitting

[00:33:14] ballies for two hours.

[00:33:17] So the physical work,

[00:33:19] like she was unafraid of doing that.

[00:33:21] Right. But but as you said,

[00:33:22] right, like that can take you so far.

[00:33:24] So the mental piece,

[00:33:26] the visualization and I hate

[00:33:28] speaking for her, but it's in the

[00:33:29] book and I'm here.

[00:33:30] So let's go.

[00:33:32] Like the visualization piece for

[00:33:33] her wasn't as much about

[00:33:36] the execution of shot as

[00:33:38] it was about the self belief

[00:33:40] in who I saw that

[00:33:42] she could become right?

[00:33:44] Because it's crazy for

[00:33:46] for as talented as she was

[00:33:47] physically and like she's I

[00:33:49] used to think I was smart.

[00:33:50] She's the smartest human being

[00:33:51] on the planet and blows my mind

[00:33:52] as smart as she was and as

[00:33:54] smart as she is and how hard

[00:33:55] working as she is.

[00:33:56] She didn't have the belief,

[00:33:58] which is just I couldn't

[00:33:59] understand that part, right?

[00:34:01] But this was a whole whole new

[00:34:02] world, right? So we talked

[00:34:04] about and visualize.

[00:34:05] So she did her own

[00:34:06] visualization work and her

[00:34:07] meditation work and her yoga

[00:34:08] work and her training

[00:34:11] on her own as well.

[00:34:12] But then we would talk

[00:34:13] through herself, believe,

[00:34:14] which is also a form of

[00:34:15] visualization, right?

[00:34:17] It's not you don't just have

[00:34:17] to be cross legged close

[00:34:19] your eyes in a quiet space

[00:34:20] with a towel over your head.

[00:34:21] You can talk through

[00:34:22] visualizations, right?

[00:34:23] And so for her and I

[00:34:26] was more about growing

[00:34:28] herself, believe and level

[00:34:29] of confidence in the

[00:34:32] way that I saw her and other

[00:34:34] people saw her because we all

[00:34:35] saw her as this extremely

[00:34:38] gifted physically

[00:34:40] and confident human.

[00:34:41] But she didn't have that

[00:34:43] instinctively within this

[00:34:44] sport itself.

[00:34:45] So for her, that's

[00:34:48] that's kind of what took

[00:34:49] over, right?

[00:34:50] And she thought she literally

[00:34:51] tried to delete her part

[00:34:53] from the book, Rob.

[00:34:54] Like I'm and I've all I told her

[00:34:56] from the get go like this is

[00:34:57] this is all just your lack

[00:34:58] of self belief.

[00:34:59] I promise you that your part,

[00:35:02] your part in the book

[00:35:03] is going to be the book.

[00:35:05] Like, like my part's fine.

[00:35:07] My part's good.

[00:35:08] You can't have one without the

[00:35:09] other obviously, but your part

[00:35:10] is really going to be the

[00:35:11] glue. So it was, I mean,

[00:35:13] literally to this day, we

[00:35:14] still were we're still

[00:35:15] working on it.

[00:35:16] Right here.

[00:35:17] Yeah.

[00:35:17] And I always I say, you

[00:35:19] gotta come on, get more arrogant.

[00:35:20] Like you've got to arrogant,

[00:35:21] like arrogant internally, not

[00:35:22] outwardly.

[00:35:23] Because you've got to believe

[00:35:24] the way that we see it.

[00:35:25] So that's what we focused on

[00:35:27] primarily.

[00:35:29] Let's delve into that because

[00:35:30] you had a really good line in

[00:35:31] the book and talked about like

[00:35:32] confidence is a choice.

[00:35:33] And in that

[00:35:36] you said the words we use

[00:35:37] alter not only our beliefs

[00:35:40] about ourselves, but

[00:35:42] our potential.

[00:35:44] Yeah.

[00:35:44] Great.

[00:35:44] Great line.

[00:35:46] Thank you.

[00:35:47] I think

[00:35:48] I think people, athletes, and

[00:35:50] I think it's instinctive.

[00:35:51] And I think maybe we're taught

[00:35:53] to we only have belief and

[00:35:55] confidence after a good result.

[00:35:56] Right.

[00:35:57] We're confident.

[00:35:57] We live on this ebb and flow,

[00:35:59] this constant out of control

[00:36:00] state.

[00:36:01] Right.

[00:36:01] And I've, you know, I had it

[00:36:03] myself.

[00:36:04] I see it in athletes growing up

[00:36:05] like they're only confident when

[00:36:06] they win and they lose

[00:36:07] confidence when they lose.

[00:36:09] And I just and I just from

[00:36:10] the get go when I was a kid.

[00:36:11] I mean, this is the

[00:36:12] instance.

[00:36:12] This is the instinct that I

[00:36:14] just felt when I was super

[00:36:15] young and I always said it

[00:36:16] without any data to back me

[00:36:18] up. Right.

[00:36:18] When I was 19 and 20, 21

[00:36:20] starting to teach tennis, I

[00:36:21] just had this instinct of like

[00:36:24] confidence is in you.

[00:36:26] Like sure, can you become

[00:36:28] more confident with good

[00:36:29] results and getting stronger

[00:36:31] and getting fitter?

[00:36:32] Of course.

[00:36:32] Eating better?

[00:36:33] Of course.

[00:36:33] Becoming more disciplined

[00:36:35] and showing up for your

[00:36:35] training sessions regularly.

[00:36:37] Will that help you like grow

[00:36:39] exponentially grow your

[00:36:41] confidence?

[00:36:41] Of course.

[00:36:43] But

[00:36:45] your confidence levels at a

[00:36:46] base are your choice.

[00:36:48] Like it is and it's based

[00:36:50] upon like starting as you said

[00:36:52] like how do we speak to

[00:36:54] ourselves?

[00:36:55] How do we talk to ourselves?

[00:36:56] That whole the self-talk

[00:36:57] piece is so important.

[00:36:59] But but I like to be like

[00:37:00] I'd like to be less like

[00:37:03] you're good and you're a

[00:37:04] winner and you're a champion

[00:37:05] because I don't I don't I

[00:37:06] personally never res resinated

[00:37:08] with those words, but it was

[00:37:09] it is more like belief in

[00:37:12] like having that confidence

[00:37:13] that you showed up just

[00:37:15] little it's your choice to

[00:37:16] just hey man it's like

[00:37:18] it's six thirty in the morning

[00:37:19] I'm really tired and I showed

[00:37:20] up to this training session.

[00:37:22] Boom.

[00:37:22] There's a level of confidence.

[00:37:24] There's a brick, right?

[00:37:25] There's another brick and

[00:37:26] and within and within that

[00:37:27] training session I'm really

[00:37:28] tired.

[00:37:28] I don't want to give that

[00:37:29] extra set.

[00:37:29] She made me give that extra

[00:37:31] set.

[00:37:31] I did another set.

[00:37:32] Boom.

[00:37:32] There's another brick.

[00:37:34] That's that's what I mean

[00:37:35] by confidence is a choice

[00:37:36] is you get to you get to

[00:37:38] consciously make decisions

[00:37:39] on what you focus on what

[00:37:41] you and what you tell

[00:37:42] yourself is confident building

[00:37:45] and what is not like

[00:37:46] you can say six thirty

[00:37:48] whatever like whatever I got

[00:37:49] here I had it and you can

[00:37:50] choose not to be confident.

[00:37:51] You can choose to look at

[00:37:52] how tired you are and how

[00:37:53] it's cold outside or you

[00:37:55] can choose to be like

[00:37:56] yeah I'm here.

[00:37:57] Yes right that yes

[00:37:59] and you can choose

[00:38:00] well it's another set

[00:38:01] she made me do another set

[00:38:02] and I want to do one

[00:38:03] but she made me do it

[00:38:03] whatever it's it's hurt you

[00:38:05] no or you could say

[00:38:06] yep I did that set.

[00:38:07] That's right.

[00:38:07] It's another brick

[00:38:08] and so I believe when

[00:38:11] when we make when we create

[00:38:12] that understanding internally

[00:38:15] that we get to choose

[00:38:16] our level of confidence

[00:38:18] then compound upon all the

[00:38:21] all the results that we're

[00:38:22] going to have and all the

[00:38:23] the process growth

[00:38:24] that we're going to feel

[00:38:26] and and levels that

[00:38:27] we're going to become

[00:38:28] then it can exponentially

[00:38:29] grow but grow but

[00:38:31] why can't we choose it

[00:38:32] from the from the foundation.

[00:38:35] How important is the debrief

[00:38:37] after competitions for

[00:38:39] athletes.

[00:38:41] I think it's I think

[00:38:42] it's crucial I think

[00:38:44] I think this is this is the

[00:38:45] place though where I've

[00:38:46] stepped away a little bit

[00:38:47] from telling them exactly

[00:38:48] how and when because

[00:38:51] and again I use my

[00:38:52] experience first it's not

[00:38:54] right or wrong it's not

[00:38:55] good or bad it's just mine

[00:38:56] and I kind of try to

[00:38:58] try to like

[00:38:59] align with their experience

[00:39:00] of of when I lost

[00:39:04] everyone wanted to debrief

[00:39:05] right away and I needed

[00:39:07] like a day two three

[00:39:08] depending on how

[00:39:09] if it was a bad loss

[00:39:10] it was a win we could

[00:39:11] debrief right away right

[00:39:12] but when we win

[00:39:13] we feel good right I don't

[00:39:14] need it I can do it right now

[00:39:16] but it's when we play poorly

[00:39:18] when we come out with that

[00:39:19] L like I personally

[00:39:20] needed anywhere between

[00:39:21] a day and five right

[00:39:23] but when we are emotionally

[00:39:25] ready it's super important

[00:39:28] to debrief and here's where

[00:39:29] I I tend to go I tend

[00:39:31] to turn a corner

[00:39:32] a little differently than

[00:39:33] then some maybe some players

[00:39:35] maybe some coaches is

[00:39:36] I don't like to look

[00:39:37] at what you need to

[00:39:37] improve first I

[00:39:40] taking kind of aligning

[00:39:41] that whole confidence

[00:39:42] is a choice thing

[00:39:43] I don't like to talk about

[00:39:44] what you did poorly

[00:39:45] I don't I don't want to

[00:39:46] address that right now

[00:39:47] we will address it

[00:39:48] but I want you to

[00:39:49] and immerse yourself

[00:39:50] in what you did well

[00:39:51] I want you to immerse

[00:39:52] yourself in what you enjoyed

[00:39:54] part of the process

[00:39:55] not not not the winning parts

[00:39:56] but just the enjoyment piece

[00:39:59] right like Kobe

[00:40:00] I posted something yesterday

[00:40:01] Kobe said don't play to win

[00:40:02] play to play

[00:40:04] play to play

[00:40:05] and so when

[00:40:06] when I debrief myself

[00:40:08] right to be a brother

[00:40:09] athletes that's where

[00:40:09] we start can we first

[00:40:11] focus on the things

[00:40:12] you did well

[00:40:13] the things that we've

[00:40:14] improved on

[00:40:15] before we get to the things

[00:40:16] that we need to

[00:40:18] you know they didn't

[00:40:18] maybe do as well

[00:40:19] as you wanted to

[00:40:20] and I always start

[00:40:21] mentally first

[00:40:21] because those are our

[00:40:22] control over right

[00:40:23] like mentally

[00:40:24] where were you

[00:40:25] mentally how

[00:40:25] how well did you do

[00:40:26] mentally let's talk about

[00:40:27] that

[00:40:28] and then we get into

[00:40:28] the negative

[00:40:29] you know nothing negative

[00:40:30] but the opportunity

[00:40:31] to grow peace

[00:40:32] right I don't even

[00:40:32] like to say

[00:40:33] in the negative

[00:40:33] I don't like to see

[00:40:34] the disappointments

[00:40:35] or the mistakes

[00:40:36] it's just opportunity

[00:40:37] is to get better

[00:40:38] right and when

[00:40:39] we reframe it that way

[00:40:40] as you know

[00:40:41] then then we can also

[00:40:43] that releases

[00:40:43] a lot of stress

[00:40:44] to and helps us

[00:40:46] kind of

[00:40:46] when I play

[00:40:48] that it's being

[00:40:48] a lot of it's

[00:40:49] being videoed right

[00:40:50] so you always want

[00:40:51] to look back at yourself

[00:40:52] but I'm telling you

[00:40:53] the hardest video

[00:40:54] to watch as you know

[00:40:55] right is

[00:40:56] when you when you lose

[00:40:58] I don't want to look

[00:40:59] at that stupid video

[00:40:59] I sucked right

[00:41:00] but again

[00:41:02] really important

[00:41:03] whether it's

[00:41:03] the next day

[00:41:04] or three days after

[00:41:05] to look at it

[00:41:06] a for the discipline

[00:41:07] of doing it

[00:41:08] you have to do it

[00:41:09] it's something

[00:41:09] you don't want to do

[00:41:10] it's something that

[00:41:11] ultimately and in the macro

[00:41:13] is going to help grow you

[00:41:14] and then I have to force

[00:41:15] myself for hope to like

[00:41:17] only look at the good things

[00:41:18] while watching a couple of times

[00:41:19] only look at the good things

[00:41:20] even though I know

[00:41:21] that I've lost the match

[00:41:23] before I get back

[00:41:24] to the things

[00:41:24] that I want to improve

[00:41:25] so yeah

[00:41:26] the briefings

[00:41:27] mentally and emotionally

[00:41:28] first before we even

[00:41:29] tackle the physical stuff

[00:41:30] super important

[00:41:32] yeah

[00:41:34] in the book

[00:41:35] and you are both

[00:41:36] word honks

[00:41:37] and quote honks

[00:41:38] but in the book

[00:41:39] you

[00:41:40] it was referred to

[00:41:41] the one man boycott

[00:41:42] of the word pressure

[00:41:44] yeah

[00:41:45] and

[00:41:46] you know this whole concept

[00:41:47] of everything is

[00:41:48] neutral until we give it meaning

[00:41:50] but let's talk about that concept

[00:41:51] because I'm in total agreement

[00:41:52] with you on that

[00:41:53] right I mean

[00:41:54] I think it's one of those things

[00:41:55] like momentum

[00:41:57] they just get thrown out there

[00:41:59] haphazardly

[00:42:00] which really

[00:42:01] you have no idea

[00:42:01] what you're talking about

[00:42:02] but

[00:42:03] yeah

[00:42:04] talk to us about that

[00:42:06] I can't believe you agree

[00:42:08] like you might be the only human

[00:42:09] on the planet

[00:42:10] that agrees with

[00:42:11] the no pressure thing

[00:42:13] I just from day one

[00:42:15] again

[00:42:15] I think this comes from

[00:42:16] from my dad's teachings

[00:42:18] like

[00:42:19] I've always hated

[00:42:21] the word pressure

[00:42:22] and

[00:42:24] I think primarily

[00:42:25] and as I got older

[00:42:25] and kind of studied

[00:42:26] why I don't like it

[00:42:28] it's because anytime

[00:42:29] it's used

[00:42:29] it's used negatively

[00:42:31] he has to deal with the pressure

[00:42:32] he has to face the pressure

[00:42:33] like

[00:42:34] the only pressure

[00:42:35] this real is in your

[00:42:36] freaking

[00:42:37] your tires

[00:42:37] and making diamonds

[00:42:38] that literal pressure

[00:42:40] the other type of

[00:42:41] pressure

[00:42:42] that we hear from

[00:42:43] everybody as you say

[00:42:44] they're just throwing the word out

[00:42:45] now

[00:42:46] they don't even know what they're

[00:42:46] talking about

[00:42:47] right is

[00:42:48] is

[00:42:49] non-existent

[00:42:50] it's something

[00:42:50] you literally create

[00:42:52] do we feel physical stress

[00:42:54] sure

[00:42:54] but that's totally different than

[00:42:56] I don't even know what pressure means

[00:42:57] man

[00:42:57] like it's just stressful moments

[00:42:59] right like

[00:43:00] I missed the shot

[00:43:00] I'm missing under pressure

[00:43:01] I'm

[00:43:01] I just missed a shot

[00:43:03] I'd literally just missed the shot

[00:43:04] and that's another way of like

[00:43:06] of being mentally tougher

[00:43:07] right like

[00:43:08] shoot or shoot

[00:43:09] right

[00:43:09] you just keep shooting

[00:43:11] um

[00:43:12] so yeah man like

[00:43:15] pressure to me

[00:43:19] pressure to me needs to be totally reframed

[00:43:21] and taken out

[00:43:22] taken out of the picture

[00:43:24] completely from an athlete's mind

[00:43:26] because it

[00:43:26] it can suck you into a self

[00:43:28] filling negative

[00:43:29] prophecy

[00:43:30] right I'm terrible under

[00:43:31] tell me what pressure is

[00:43:33] right like

[00:43:33] but I remember

[00:43:34] I remember watching

[00:43:35] the Stanford football coach after

[00:43:37] after I think he beat UCLA

[00:43:39] and they were interviewing him

[00:43:40] it was maybe five years ago

[00:43:41] and he said the exact same thing

[00:43:42] pressure is made up in our minds

[00:43:44] and Kobe said it

[00:43:45] right

[00:43:46] pressure literally doesn't exist

[00:43:48] we make it up in our minds

[00:43:50] and we need to

[00:43:51] learn how to reframe that

[00:43:53] and like if pressure

[00:43:54] if the word pressure

[00:43:55] wasn't such a negative term

[00:43:58] from athletes

[00:43:59] from coaches

[00:43:59] from announcers

[00:44:00] it's all they say

[00:44:01] every third word is

[00:44:02] pressure

[00:44:02] here's a pressure putt

[00:44:03] right here's a pressure shot

[00:44:05] right here's just a putt

[00:44:07] it's just a 10 foot putt on 18

[00:44:09] if he makes it

[00:44:10] he might win the tournament

[00:44:11] he might not

[00:44:12] if he misses it

[00:44:13] he taps in

[00:44:14] it's just a putt

[00:44:16] right and like you said

[00:44:17] like

[00:44:18] to kind of piggyback on what you said

[00:44:20] the shot in pickleball

[00:44:21] is just a shot

[00:44:22] until we label it

[00:44:23] something different

[00:44:24] we get to

[00:44:25] again

[00:44:26] we get to choose

[00:44:27] how we label it

[00:44:28] I can label it as

[00:44:29] this is a pressure serve

[00:44:31] or I can label it

[00:44:32] as this is a serve

[00:44:33] do I feel my heart racing

[00:44:34] a little bit

[00:44:35] do I feel a little sweaty

[00:44:36] yeah

[00:44:36] but because I've trained my mental game

[00:44:38] I know how to slow my heart rate down

[00:44:40] I know how to get into my breathing

[00:44:42] I know how to like calm the nerves down

[00:44:44] I know how to calm the nerves

[00:44:45] so this is just the serve

[00:44:47] while I'm

[00:44:48] like experiencing

[00:44:49] some stress in my body

[00:44:51] right

[00:44:52] and that's

[00:44:53] that's

[00:44:54] that's not easy

[00:44:55] but again

[00:44:55] it's a learned skill

[00:44:58] just like

[00:44:59] hitting a freaking

[00:45:00] wedge to two feet

[00:45:01] they learn skill

[00:45:02] hitting a pickleball

[00:45:03] to a spot

[00:45:04] in that moment

[00:45:05] at 10-9

[00:45:06] going to 11

[00:45:06] is a learned

[00:45:08] skill

[00:45:09] but we tend to ignore that skill

[00:45:11] and just get to the physical all time

[00:45:13] and we just

[00:45:14] don't you think that that word pressure

[00:45:16] and

[00:45:16] you know

[00:45:17] it is

[00:45:17] it is just

[00:45:19] um

[00:45:20] what's the word

[00:45:21] I'm like

[00:45:21] it's just like

[00:45:22] it's just automatic

[00:45:24] it's not even thought about anymore

[00:45:25] it's just

[00:45:26] is

[00:45:26] like the sky is blue

[00:45:28] and it is pressure

[00:45:28] and

[00:45:29] that to me is just

[00:45:30] garbage

[00:45:30] it's nonsense

[00:45:31] and it's

[00:45:32] killing our athletes potential

[00:45:34] yeah

[00:45:34] I mean

[00:45:35] the way I've approached it

[00:45:36] because I love the

[00:45:37] the concept and

[00:45:38] again

[00:45:38] how you described it

[00:45:39] I think it's great

[00:45:40] and I think the way you lay it out in the book is perfect

[00:45:41] it really is

[00:45:43] I've always

[00:45:44] subscribed to Billie Jean's

[00:45:46] pressure is a privilege

[00:45:47] Billie Jean King

[00:45:48] you know

[00:45:48] pressure is a privilege

[00:45:49] and then what does that mean

[00:45:50] and I

[00:45:51] I just think like

[00:45:52] look when

[00:45:53] Kobe saying play to play

[00:45:55] when you prepare

[00:45:57] and you get to

[00:46:00] play

[00:46:01] and yeah

[00:46:02] there's

[00:46:03] there's stuff on the line

[00:46:04] right I mean

[00:46:04] that's why the Olympics

[00:46:05] are playing in your backyard

[00:46:07] like there's stuff on the line for there

[00:46:08] there's good

[00:46:10] that can be cheap

[00:46:10] right

[00:46:10] that's why we get excited

[00:46:11] not nervous

[00:46:12] but

[00:46:13] what I try to really share with them

[00:46:15] I just said

[00:46:16] I just think

[00:46:17] playing and competing

[00:46:18] is the closest you get

[00:46:19] to

[00:46:21] what life is all about

[00:46:22] I mean

[00:46:22] yeah

[00:46:23] you're gonna have kids

[00:46:23] you're gonna get married

[00:46:25] and these are

[00:46:25] these are miracles

[00:46:26] I think

[00:46:27] I think like having a kid is a miracle

[00:46:28] I don't think it's

[00:46:29] it's way different than

[00:46:31] when you compete

[00:46:33] it's where you're bringing out

[00:46:36] the best part of yourself

[00:46:38] and

[00:46:40] there's an outcome to it

[00:46:41] you know

[00:46:42] and I just said

[00:46:42] I just want you

[00:46:43] approach it like that

[00:46:44] just knowing that

[00:46:45] you being in the moment

[00:46:47] that's what the sport

[00:46:48] is really asking you to do

[00:46:49] it's like

[00:46:49] hey

[00:46:50] just be here with me

[00:46:51] in this moment

[00:46:51] and let's do your best

[00:46:53] and

[00:46:54] just play

[00:46:55] right

[00:46:56] that's what part

[00:46:57] where I think of

[00:46:58] like

[00:46:58] yeah

[00:47:00] everything else

[00:47:01] it means

[00:47:01] you're just on the sidelines

[00:47:03] and you don't get to experience

[00:47:04] that feeling of being in the moment

[00:47:07] right

[00:47:07] truly

[00:47:08] right

[00:47:09] can't we as coaches

[00:47:11] and athletes

[00:47:12] like take what you just said

[00:47:13] experiencing the moment

[00:47:16] whether it is that putt

[00:47:17] whether it is on the pickleball court

[00:47:18] experiencing the moment

[00:47:19] and never

[00:47:21] and like

[00:47:21] the privilege of the moment

[00:47:23] right

[00:47:23] like you are privileged

[00:47:24] to be in this

[00:47:26] stressful moment

[00:47:27] and you don't even have to say

[00:47:28] stressful

[00:47:28] in this

[00:47:29] exciting moment

[00:47:30] you are privileged to be here

[00:47:31] can't we reframe

[00:47:33] and teach our coaches

[00:47:34] teach our athletes

[00:47:35] to not even

[00:47:36] like the word

[00:47:36] the pressure

[00:47:37] does it ever have to be included

[00:47:39] in that sentence

[00:47:40] as you said

[00:47:41] like

[00:47:41] it is just an experience

[00:47:43] I think

[00:47:44] I think a lot of coaches

[00:47:45] and athletes

[00:47:45] kind of get it twisted

[00:47:46] a little bit

[00:47:47] thinking

[00:47:47] that we have to ignore

[00:47:48] that there's an outcome

[00:47:49] like just be here

[00:47:49] in a moment

[00:47:50] like our brain can't do that

[00:47:52] there is an outcome

[00:47:53] we can't fool our brain

[00:47:54] into thinking

[00:47:55] that it's just like practice

[00:47:56] like no

[00:47:57] it's never

[00:47:57] just like practice

[00:47:58] and even in practice

[00:47:59] and in training

[00:48:00] the higher elite

[00:48:01] you know the higher levels we get

[00:48:02] we feel that outcome

[00:48:04] right and so

[00:48:04] it's not ignoring

[00:48:06] or pretending there is no outcome

[00:48:07] it's allowing us to

[00:48:09] it's allowing the athlete

[00:48:10] to experience

[00:48:12] that moment

[00:48:13] knowing there's an outcome

[00:48:15] but still enjoying

[00:48:17] the experience

[00:48:19] right like

[00:48:20] that's the privilege

[00:48:21] when I hear Billy Jean

[00:48:22] King Pressure's a privilege

[00:48:23] like I just ignore

[00:48:24] the pressure piece

[00:48:24] and I just go this moment

[00:48:26] it's a privilege

[00:48:26] like this is incredible

[00:48:27] that I'm allowed

[00:48:28] to be in this moment

[00:48:29] where 99% of the people

[00:48:31] are on the couch

[00:48:32] either unable to physically

[00:48:33] or they're just too afraid

[00:48:35] to dive into these moments

[00:48:37] like what an incredible opportunity

[00:48:40] and when we as athletes

[00:48:42] put us especially as coaches

[00:48:43] when we can reframe

[00:48:44] our athlete's mentality

[00:48:45] into that structure

[00:48:48] oh my gosh

[00:48:49] the whole thing changes

[00:48:51] for them

[00:48:51] right

[00:48:53] yeah indeed man

[00:48:56] talk to us about patience

[00:48:59] I don't have any

[00:49:01] I don't either man

[00:49:03] so brutal

[00:49:04] I'm like

[00:49:04] Jill I don't want to talk

[00:49:05] about patience

[00:49:06] is I don't have any

[00:49:07] I mean so

[00:49:08] that's funny because

[00:49:09] so I always say this

[00:49:11] in other ways

[00:49:12] like I have

[00:49:14] I have an immeasurable

[00:49:17] an immeasurable amount of patience

[00:49:19] and simultaneously

[00:49:21] I literally don't have any

[00:49:23] like I have

[00:49:24] for the macro

[00:49:25] I have patience

[00:49:28] for life

[00:49:30] like I know

[00:49:30] so when you say that

[00:49:31] like just knowing that

[00:49:34] the journey that you're going to be on

[00:49:35] that's going to work out

[00:49:36] like give me an example

[00:49:37] of that macro patience

[00:49:38] so the macro patience

[00:49:40] for me is I know

[00:49:42] that if I show up

[00:49:43] for this training session

[00:49:44] or if I show up

[00:49:45] for my visualization sessions

[00:49:47] or if I show up

[00:49:47] for my rolling every night

[00:49:49] stretching two hours

[00:49:50] every single night

[00:49:51] if I show up for this

[00:49:53] I'm going to have

[00:49:54] I'm going to probably

[00:49:55] turn into the person

[00:49:56] that I'm trying to become

[00:49:57] right and even if I don't

[00:49:58] I get to enjoy

[00:49:59] and I get to be closer

[00:50:00] to that person

[00:50:01] that's a level of patience

[00:50:02] I mean in the macro

[00:50:04] like I know

[00:50:04] if I put in the work

[00:50:06] I'm probably going to get

[00:50:07] closer to that player

[00:50:08] than I'm trying to become

[00:50:09] right so I have patience

[00:50:11] freaking

[00:50:12] like immeasurable amount

[00:50:14] like it's infinite

[00:50:15] but in the micro

[00:50:17] in the day to day

[00:50:18] and then in the shot making

[00:50:19] in the drilling

[00:50:20] I want to get better

[00:50:21] I have no patience

[00:50:22] I need to get better now

[00:50:23] like I need to make this shot now

[00:50:25] like and I played golf too

[00:50:26] I was down to a two handicap

[00:50:27] so I know what that feels like

[00:50:28] right and I need to make that

[00:50:30] but I can't even believe

[00:50:31] I miss that seven footer

[00:50:32] three times in a row

[00:50:33] on the practice screen

[00:50:33] like I suck

[00:50:35] I need to make that now

[00:50:36] because I got a tournament tomorrow

[00:50:37] like I need to

[00:50:38] and so on the pickleball court

[00:50:40] in the drilling sessions

[00:50:41] you know we're drilling certain things

[00:50:42] like I get so beyond

[00:50:44] frustrated

[00:50:45] in the micro

[00:50:46] when I'm not executing

[00:50:48] like I need to today

[00:50:51] but then when I step back

[00:50:53] or Jill or my drilling partner

[00:50:55] you know makes me kind of like

[00:50:57] open my eyes to be like

[00:50:58] dude we're good

[00:50:58] like macro you're good

[00:50:59] you're here you showed up

[00:51:00] good day bad day

[00:51:02] okay day like you said right

[00:51:03] playing great playing good

[00:51:04] playing okay like

[00:51:05] you're here

[00:51:06] so the macro is going to take care of itself

[00:51:08] now that's that's kind of what I mean

[00:51:10] with the patients

[00:51:10] I think people

[00:51:12] more or less think of patients

[00:51:13] just in a micro

[00:51:14] right and I think we

[00:51:16] and again I just

[00:51:17] I always try to reverse engineer

[00:51:18] from the macro

[00:51:19] because that

[00:51:20] tends to take like the most stress away

[00:51:22] because the macro is just

[00:51:24] it's so

[00:51:25] controllable if you

[00:51:27] if you

[00:51:28] it's controllable and it's not right

[00:51:30] like how you show up is controllable

[00:51:31] and if you look at

[00:51:32] I always say there's two graphs

[00:51:34] I look at two graphs

[00:51:35] I look at that day to day graph

[00:51:36] like you play good

[00:51:37] you play bad

[00:51:37] you play good

[00:51:38] you play bad

[00:51:38] it was a terrible day

[00:51:39] it was a great day

[00:51:39] and it's just every day is like this

[00:51:41] right

[00:51:41] up and down up and down

[00:51:42] but the macro graph

[00:51:43] for me is the most important

[00:51:44] because this thing is not changing

[00:51:46] right you might go higher

[00:51:47] you might go lower

[00:51:47] but it's freaking going to be all

[00:51:49] over the place

[00:51:50] that macro graph right like

[00:51:51] over a long period of time

[00:51:53] what does that thing look like

[00:51:54] this is the sucker

[00:51:55] I freaking want to step into

[00:51:56] this is the thing

[00:51:57] I want to laser into right

[00:51:59] talking about debriefing

[00:52:00] I want to look at this first

[00:52:02] right are we are we better than we were yesterday

[00:52:04] or last week

[00:52:04] or last month

[00:52:05] if the answer is yes

[00:52:06] we're good

[00:52:07] we're good

[00:52:09] then we can tackle

[00:52:10] the micro things

[00:52:11] that you're so impatient about

[00:52:14] calling it to stock market man

[00:52:15] right

[00:52:15] yeah

[00:52:16] exactly the same

[00:52:17] you're going to be highs and lows

[00:52:19] man throughout the year

[00:52:19] but I tell you what man

[00:52:21] I would be really happy

[00:52:24] if I had 10,000 and Apple stock in 1980

[00:52:26] that's exactly

[00:52:28] or any stock in 1980

[00:52:30] right

[00:52:31] the stock market

[00:52:31] and when I tell people

[00:52:32] the stock market has never lost money

[00:52:34] they kind of be like

[00:52:34] what do you mean

[00:52:35] it's never lost money

[00:52:36] so well I mean

[00:52:37] is it higher than what it was in 1980

[00:52:39] it's a higher than what it was in 2000

[00:52:41] higher than what it was in 1960

[00:52:43] 1930s

[00:52:44] and then the answer is yes

[00:52:45] then that proves the point

[00:52:47] so it's like on a

[00:52:47] on a long enough time scale

[00:52:50] you know that's where that macro piece

[00:52:51] really comes into play

[00:52:53] yeah

[00:52:53] um

[00:52:54] we'll break it down for us

[00:52:56] in a match

[00:52:58] how does patience

[00:52:59] like how would it unfold

[00:53:01] like how would you really see that unfold

[00:53:03] so I mean so then you have to now

[00:53:05] now in a match

[00:53:06] now you have to bring the macro

[00:53:07] into the micro and like have them at the same time

[00:53:10] which is really hard right

[00:53:11] like

[00:53:12] it's really difficult because if you're not

[00:53:13] like

[00:53:14] so first off we start with

[00:53:16] the reverse engineer

[00:53:17] always started the reverse engineer

[00:53:18] of what this matches about right

[00:53:19] and

[00:53:21] everyone's a little different

[00:53:22] every opponent is a little different

[00:53:23] but for me it's about

[00:53:24] okay

[00:53:25] we're trying to

[00:53:25] we're literally we have puzzle pieces

[00:53:28] all over the ground right

[00:53:29] it's all

[00:53:29] all over the table

[00:53:30] we're just trying to

[00:53:31] piece one of these suckers together

[00:53:33] right so

[00:53:34] the puzzle

[00:53:35] the puzzle is a great analogy of the

[00:53:36] micro and the macro

[00:53:38] patients that have to come together at the same time

[00:53:40] right because you've got these pieces all over the place

[00:53:42] i.e. the beginning of your match

[00:53:44] and now our job is

[00:53:45] to fill in the corners first

[00:53:47] because they're the easy right

[00:53:47] that the

[00:53:49] the frame is the easiest piece before we go right

[00:53:51] that's the beginning of the match

[00:53:52] and so

[00:53:53] we got this macro patients

[00:53:54] that it's going to take us a while to figure out this puzzle of our opponents

[00:53:58] what they're up to what they think

[00:53:59] how they think about us

[00:54:00] what we think about them etc

[00:54:02] and then as we get

[00:54:03] more into

[00:54:04] into the match

[00:54:06] the level of the micro patients

[00:54:07] now we're starting to figure out the puzzle now

[00:54:09] let's put our micro level patients onto this

[00:54:12] if we just

[00:54:13] continue with this game plan

[00:54:15] right

[00:54:15] it may or may not work

[00:54:17] but let's continue with it

[00:54:18] until we have to adjust

[00:54:19] right and so that's the micro patients piece for me is

[00:54:22] first let's figure out like where this puzzle is headed

[00:54:25] let's put out the frame

[00:54:26] and then let's get into the game plan of who they are

[00:54:29] right what they like

[00:54:30] they're their micro ups and downs

[00:54:32] and then we're going to keep pivoting and adjusting

[00:54:34] until someone grabs the W or the L

[00:54:37] and within that if you lose your

[00:54:39] if you lose either one

[00:54:40] right if you lose your macro patients

[00:54:42] you're gone because then you're going to start trying to hit home runs

[00:54:44] if you lose your micro patients

[00:54:46] you're going to lose discipline

[00:54:47] and you're going to lose the game plan

[00:54:49] you're going to forget about

[00:54:50] his weakness or her weakness

[00:54:51] and what they think about us so

[00:54:53] it's really tough

[00:54:54] which is again I say it's so difficult

[00:54:56] and at the same time

[00:54:57] again piggybacking on what you said

[00:54:59] these experiences

[00:55:01] to be able to do this

[00:55:02] is so exciting

[00:55:05] this for me right here talking about this

[00:55:07] and immersing ourselves in this process

[00:55:10] is so much more fun than the actual

[00:55:13] like the actual win

[00:55:15] of the match

[00:55:15] it's not even close to me anymore

[00:55:17] not even close

[00:55:18] like just talking about it and

[00:55:20] thinking about it

[00:55:20] I have the US open at this time

[00:55:22] that we're that we're recording here

[00:55:23] I have the US open next week and

[00:55:25] and like thinking about what has to get done

[00:55:29] the anticipation on the flight

[00:55:30] and thinking about who we're going to play

[00:55:32] and I know the better teams

[00:55:33] that we're going to have to get through

[00:55:34] that that gives me butterflies to no end

[00:55:37] it's just the process of trying to figure out the puzzle

[00:55:39] the macro and the micro patients piece man

[00:55:42] yeah

[00:55:44] want to listen to your favorite music

[00:55:46] but you're sick of all the commercial interruptions

[00:55:48] and negative news today

[00:55:49] tune into cucko radio dot com

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[00:56:06] don't you

[00:56:06] and always ask every guest this but

[00:56:09] you can take it any way you want

[00:56:10] what question should I be asking here

[00:56:12] that I just haven't asked

[00:56:14] well that's a hell of a wow

[00:56:16] that's the first time I've ever been asked that question

[00:56:18] you are a freaking monster

[00:56:19] that's a hell of a question

[00:56:21] um what question should you ask

[00:56:24] I know if I get if I say I don't know

[00:56:27] and we end this conversation

[00:56:28] I'm gonna freaking call you right back

[00:56:29] God damn should have been that one

[00:56:31] um I think

[00:56:34] how about this one

[00:56:34] I think why did you why did you write

[00:56:37] why did you and Joe write the book

[00:56:38] and that's a great question

[00:56:40] that you haven't asked yet

[00:56:41] okay so go ahead and ask it

[00:56:43] so coach

[00:56:45] why did you and in your co-author Joe Martin

[00:56:50] why did you write this book

[00:56:52] that's a great question Rob

[00:56:54] thank you so much for coming up with that question

[00:56:56] um so I believe that a lot of people are a lot of athletes

[00:57:01] and a lot of people that aren't athletes

[00:57:04] I think we go through a special

[00:57:05] in the social media phase that we're in

[00:57:07] only showing the good parts of our life

[00:57:09] right only showing that Lamborghini

[00:57:11] that Ferrari taking a selfie with that

[00:57:13] Ferrari that's not ours

[00:57:14] right or or the nice portion that we're

[00:57:16] renting for a day

[00:57:17] it's really not ours right

[00:57:19] and I wanted to show number number one

[00:57:22] just straightforward

[00:57:23] there's some mental there's some mental

[00:57:25] concepts that I think in my world

[00:57:27] the pickleball that haven't been

[00:57:28] discussed right I'm super blessed

[00:57:30] and fortunate to be one of the first

[00:57:33] athletes and coaches to be discussing

[00:57:34] the mental pieces of this

[00:57:36] and I wanted to number one

[00:57:37] just share that so that's the obvious

[00:57:39] one like we have

[00:57:40] but like the real the deeper meaning is

[00:57:42] Jill's part of showing and being so

[00:57:44] relatable in her struggle

[00:57:46] in her ups and downs her ebbs and flows

[00:57:48] of what it's really like to train

[00:57:51] right what it's what what most people

[00:57:53] are feeling and thinking

[00:57:56] but are too afraid to talk about it

[00:57:58] most people believe that it's the

[00:58:00] other

[00:58:00] other we're the only ones that struggle

[00:58:02] I'm the only one that has fear and

[00:58:04] doubt I'm the only one that feels

[00:58:05] that stress in the moment

[00:58:06] I'm the only one that has blown a

[00:58:07] big shot in the biggest moments I'm

[00:58:08] the only one I'm the only one that gets

[00:58:10] too tired I don't want to train look at

[00:58:11] everybody else is posting their videos

[00:58:13] on how they're like no sleep no grind

[00:58:15] no days off and I'm the only one

[00:58:17] and so I knew that by Jill sharing

[00:58:19] the reality when she got really

[00:58:21] vulnerable in this book and showing

[00:58:22] the reality of her tears

[00:58:24] and her wanting to quit and her

[00:58:25] arguing with me and and thinking I'm

[00:58:27] full of crap and this won't work for

[00:58:29] her and it's only for professional

[00:58:30] athletes

[00:58:31] like showing how we can ebb and flow

[00:58:33] and come out of it

[00:58:35] everybody is feeling that you felt it

[00:58:38] I felt it I feel it

[00:58:39] the Kobe is felt it Michael Jordan is

[00:58:41] felt it Tom Brady we they have all

[00:58:43] felt it

[00:58:44] and I just don't think enough athletes

[00:58:46] show it

[00:58:47] they don't talk about it enough so

[00:58:49] so it's changed over time why we wrote

[00:58:51] this book first it was I want to get

[00:58:53] these mental pieces out

[00:58:54] but but it's really kind of turned

[00:58:56] into I there's so much value for

[00:58:59] people to read and relate to

[00:59:01] that that is so much more important

[00:59:03] to me than the micro mental pieces

[00:59:05] it's important but but Jill's

[00:59:07] vulnerability in this book is freaking

[00:59:10] mind-boggling

[00:59:11] yeah and the part that I like about

[00:59:13] the part that I like about Jill's

[00:59:14] voice in there too is I mean it's

[00:59:15] coming from an alpha I mean she's

[00:59:17] an alpha

[00:59:18] you know and then showing those

[00:59:19] vulnerabilities is one thing if it's

[00:59:20] like

[00:59:22] but you can see where she's an alpha

[00:59:24] I mean very successful

[00:59:26] and then takes that mindset in there

[00:59:27] and then I didn't know if you could

[00:59:28] catch this head fake that we did

[00:59:30] but what we've done is now we've

[00:59:31] created anticipation

[00:59:33] that yes you've you've heard what

[00:59:36] coach Danes take is but now

[00:59:39] you got to pick up the book because

[00:59:40] you got to read what Jill's take is on

[00:59:43] and how this all intertwines because

[00:59:44] it really well written book and

[00:59:46] and both their stories come together

[00:59:48] and it's a pickleball mindset

[00:59:49] the blueprint for peak performance

[00:59:51] and coach man thanks so much for

[00:59:53] glad we're able to get together

[00:59:54] man and do this but

[00:59:55] dude I really appreciate you and

[00:59:57] again thanks for having me on but

[00:59:58] but more importantly man huge six

[01:00:00] huge huge congrats to your success

[01:00:02] to I've been following all along and

[01:00:04] I will keep following you you're a

[01:00:05] monster you're somebody as a coach

[01:00:07] and as a human as an athlete that I

[01:00:08] highly highly respect and I will

[01:00:11] be following you forever

[01:00:13] well you know I think it's just

[01:00:18] there's a lot of different layers

[01:00:19] to it you know I mean but it was

[01:00:20] always on this journey of

[01:00:23] when we talk about getting better

[01:00:25] and you know the 1% better and

[01:00:27] you know however

[01:00:28] however you want to like take the

[01:00:29] flavor of the month whatever that is

[01:00:31] and go do it you know

[01:00:34] a couple of things have always

[01:00:35] resonated with me and that's where I

[01:00:36] think we connect is the real growth

[01:00:40] isn't really in that physical piece

[01:00:42] I mean it's it's in who is it that

[01:00:44] you want to become

[01:00:46] and I think when or a lot of times

[01:00:48] when I look at it it's like man I

[01:00:50] just I didn't show up the way I

[01:00:51] wanted to show up

[01:00:53] those are the those are the real

[01:00:54] painful ones man because it's

[01:00:56] like winning and losing like man

[01:00:57] I I'm not one of the guys that

[01:00:59] like losing isn't an option it's

[01:01:01] no I'm actually okay with it

[01:01:04] not in a moment

[01:01:05] but I'm okay with it if I played

[01:01:07] the way I wanted to play

[01:01:09] I can accept the outcome what I can

[01:01:10] accept is when I just didn't give it

[01:01:14] my all and how did I give my all

[01:01:17] I was I was blaming and complaining

[01:01:19] you know what I mean like that's

[01:01:20] the part to really hate about

[01:01:22] myself man so I think that's

[01:01:23] probably why we resonate so much

[01:01:25] is looking at that growth piece do

[01:01:27] you agree

[01:01:28] absolutely and don't you think it

[01:01:30] bothers you it bothers you so much

[01:01:32] because you know that it's totally

[01:01:35] within your control to show up

[01:01:37] every time the way that you want to

[01:01:40] and that's why it bothers you yeah

[01:01:41] and that's the part right it's like

[01:01:43] man can you take 100 percent

[01:01:44] responsibility

[01:01:46] when people say just do your best

[01:01:49] okay well what's that mean

[01:01:51] what's that mean yeah because if

[01:01:53] you really want to do your best

[01:01:55] then in there's two parts to it

[01:01:57] one you have to show up

[01:01:58] but two you've got to bring it

[01:02:00] a lot of people can do one of the other

[01:02:02] man and your 85 percent can get by

[01:02:06] but man you rarely take 100

[01:02:08] responsibility for your performance

[01:02:11] and your attitude and how you're

[01:02:12] going to do

[01:02:14] but that's a lot man

[01:02:16] you know and then you take it in

[01:02:17] all realms

[01:02:19] well then you take that p-word

[01:02:21] that we're not going to talk about

[01:02:22] and man it's really just about

[01:02:25] because there is so much that's out

[01:02:26] of your control you have to maximize

[01:02:28] the things that are in your control

[01:02:29] you know that's the part where I think

[01:02:32] our journey you know coincides man

[01:02:35] absolutely 100 percent agree man

[01:02:37] it's it's uh it's why i'm freaking so

[01:02:39] happy to be here i just knew we'd

[01:02:40] have such an amazing conversation

[01:02:42] and yeah and everything that you

[01:02:43] disagree with me on privately you're

[01:02:45] wrong just for the record you're

[01:02:47] wrong i'm right

[01:02:49] you got it man

[01:02:52] you're not gonna fight back it's no

[01:02:53] fun i look like an a-hole now you

[01:02:55] didn't fight back you just took it

[01:02:56] now i look like a jerk

[01:02:57] well jay calamata said you got to move

[01:02:59] with the punch man so i'm just kind of

[01:03:01] moving with that one

[01:03:03] thanks so much brother

[01:03:04] hey thank you

[01:03:07] thanks for listening to mental toughness

[01:03:11] with dr rob bell

[01:03:13] to find out more about dr rob

[01:03:15] visit his website at drrobbbell.com

[01:03:18] or follow him on twitter at dr rob bell

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[01:03:25] next episode of mental toughness

[01:03:27] as soon as it's available thanks for

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