Ep. 140 - DJ Wilson - 80 Percent, 80 Percent Of The Time

[00:00:00] Welcome to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell.

[00:00:13] Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes, executives and expert coaches to talk about

[00:00:18] mental toughness and their hinge moment.

[00:00:21] Here's your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:39] We are the most prominent, most consistent voice in our head and if we are not positive,

[00:00:45] we cannot do positive things.

[00:00:46] So we have to be intentional about loving ourselves just like we do with anybody else.

[00:00:51] And if we are not, we are not going to be successful.

[00:00:54] Our guest today is CEO and founder along with his wife, Karyana, who started Playbook Clinics

[00:01:03] which is created by football coaches to meet the challenges of today's game.

[00:01:09] Our guest is also a linebacker's coach at Bishop Blanchett in Seattle.

[00:01:14] He's coached the Seattle Majestics.

[00:01:16] He's an entrepreneur, visionary, a lot of different careers.

[00:01:21] And excited about this conversation today with coach, I was called coach.

[00:01:25] DJ Wilson, DJ man, thank you so much for taking the time and joining us today.

[00:01:28] Rob, I'm honored to be here and appreciate all you're doing to support coaches and

[00:01:33] people in general.

[00:01:34] Rob Bell I've always researched the individuals that

[00:01:39] I'm getting ready to interview and your life, which I want to talk all about took

[00:01:43] a lot of different turns.

[00:01:44] But what I noticed was you spent many years early on in politics.

[00:01:49] Like this is always slow-pitched off ball question, but

[00:01:52] did you have a dream of pursuing politics?

[00:01:56] Oh yeah, man.

[00:01:57] I, boy, from the earliest days, so I'm 48, so I'm a Cold War baby.

[00:02:03] And I remember very clearly things like the presidential debates in 1980 and

[00:02:10] the Reykjavik summit in 1985 and the threat of maybe going to Nicaragua in 1983.

[00:02:18] And some of those really palpable moments in the 80s.

[00:02:24] And so I felt this kind of protector kind of urge.

[00:02:30] And I thought that at the time, and for the early part of my life,

[00:02:33] I thought that the best way to help keep level heads to support and

[00:02:38] protect our community was to get involved in politics.

[00:02:41] And I still think that's a noble profession and I run for office and one,

[00:02:48] but mostly lost and work behind the scenes to support folks that I appreciated

[00:02:54] and liked and that took the shape of working on both sides of the aisle.

[00:02:58] I worked for a Republican Senator, US Senator, a Democratic,

[00:03:02] couple of Democratic elected officials, US Senator, a member of Congress.

[00:03:05] And they say that people who are in the middle of the road get run over and

[00:03:13] we call them roadkill.

[00:03:15] It's more successful to be on a far left or the far right these days,

[00:03:19] and that was never really my home.

[00:03:21] So it was a fun time.

[00:03:24] So you founded eight different companies and I'm always fascinated.

[00:03:31] Obviously by the successes, you had two successful exits.

[00:03:33] You talked about two being mediocre, but then you had two epic failures.

[00:03:37] And I'm a firm believer.

[00:03:38] I know we learn way more from our failures.

[00:03:42] And let me just preface this by I failed as well and I know that it takes

[00:03:49] like part of your soul kind of out of you at least for a little bit.

[00:03:52] I mean, you have to kind of search because your identity is so wrapped up in it.

[00:03:56] Can you talk to us about those failures and coming out of those and

[00:04:03] what you learned about yourself during those?

[00:04:07] Yeah, I think our failures make us who we are.

[00:04:11] There's this great, great book that's just been out by Rick Rubin called a creative,

[00:04:17] I think it's called The Creative Act, A Way of Life.

[00:04:20] And I just finished it.

[00:04:22] One of the things he says in there is that failure is the information you need

[00:04:28] to get to where you're going.

[00:04:30] And you really don't learn that much from success because you feel like you must be

[00:04:37] the smartest guy in the room.

[00:04:39] It's really just the failures that force you to be self-reflective.

[00:04:44] And part of what I've taken from my failures over the year is just a reflection

[00:04:52] that if you are in baseball and you get a hit one out of three times,

[00:04:58] you're going to Hall of Fame.

[00:05:00] If you strike out two out of three times, but you get a hit one out of three times,

[00:05:05] you're going to the Hall of Fame.

[00:05:06] So we got to take our cuts and we got to be ready to accept setbacks.

[00:05:14] So we talk about in our companies and our culture that we want to be 80% 80% of the time.

[00:05:22] And if we can be 80% effective, 80% of the time, we're going to be very, very good.

[00:05:29] And that the whole notion this is particularly important, I think for smart,

[00:05:33] high achieving people, particularly early in their career, because smart,

[00:05:37] high achieving people think they need to be 100%.

[00:05:40] Like that's how they're trained in college.

[00:05:42] That's you know, they got to get straight as 4.0.

[00:05:44] And that is not how life works.

[00:05:46] And so we try to take young people, particularly early career,

[00:05:50] or even sometimes mid-career professionals and say, hey, look, man,

[00:05:55] you can put yourself on a pathway for 100% success.

[00:05:59] It means you will never stretch, you will never try,

[00:06:01] you will never do anything hard, you will only take the easy path.

[00:06:05] And your life is so much should be so much more than that.

[00:06:09] And so, you know, our failures in business, my failures in business

[00:06:15] have just reminded me that boy, I've got to stretch.

[00:06:18] I'm more alive when I stretch.

[00:06:19] And if I get one hit at three at bats, I'm going to be just fine.

[00:06:25] Hey, good looking.

[00:06:29] If you like this podcast and are already a badass,

[00:06:33] but it's all way too complicated, then visit our website, DrRobBell.com

[00:06:38] and schedule a call with us to help capture your very own hinge moment.

[00:06:43] I love that, man.

[00:06:44] I think you named the podcast episode there too, DJ.

[00:06:47] That's going to be great.

[00:06:49] I'm going to go ahead and do a quick video.

[00:06:51] I think that's so important, man.

[00:06:53] If you could do B work four days out of five,

[00:06:56] you're going to be so much farther ahead of everybody,

[00:07:01] not just your competition, but who you can be.

[00:07:05] And as you know, like most of success in the world,

[00:07:11] sports otherwise is just avoiding unforced errors.

[00:07:14] And I think that's a great thing.

[00:07:16] In the world, sports otherwise is just avoiding unforced errors.

[00:07:21] If you can just avoid self harm, you are ahead of the game.

[00:07:26] So the team that makes the fewest mistakes usually wins.

[00:07:31] I'm seven from a general,

[00:07:33] Neland Maxim guy went to University of Tennessee.

[00:07:35] So I mean, that's that's Maxim number one.

[00:07:38] The team that makes the fewest mistakes usually wins.

[00:07:42] Wait, true.

[00:07:43] But I will say, sorry, Rob, just to just to add one final.

[00:07:47] Oh, you're a hero, man. You run.

[00:07:51] We are evolutionarily hardwired going back millions of years,

[00:07:56] but also in all recent modern history

[00:08:00] to overestimate the risk of anything we're facing.

[00:08:05] We are hardwired to take care and to

[00:08:11] to not take action unless we think it's safe.

[00:08:15] And and I think this actually fits within the construct of your recent book,

[00:08:21] which is like I think being patient is

[00:08:25] like its graduate level. It's like next level stuff, right?

[00:08:28] Because our first inclination is to not act.

[00:08:33] And people people will just sit on their hands and say,

[00:08:36] oh, I'll do it tomorrow or it's too scary

[00:08:39] or the risk of failure is too great.

[00:08:40] We're hardwired to think that that's the case and it's not.

[00:08:43] It's not as scary as we think.

[00:08:45] And then so this idea of taking action, sometimes it is OK to take action.

[00:08:49] Even if you don't, I mean, don't have all the answers.

[00:08:53] I think that you should be willing to just jump in the jump in the thing and go.

[00:08:57] And once you understand that like there's a time and place for action

[00:09:02] and you have developed the competency to move into act,

[00:09:06] then like that's when you get to this sort of sweet spot where you're talking

[00:09:09] about terms of like be patient.

[00:09:12] You don't have to swing at every pitch.

[00:09:14] Sometimes you just go wait for the right one.

[00:09:19] That's why it was such a hard book to write

[00:09:22] is because I've always been a ready fire and guy.

[00:09:27] That's how it's always been for me.

[00:09:29] I when fear would would be present, I would go towards it

[00:09:32] because like I hated the notion of being afraid.

[00:09:37] And so I'm going to force myself to go for it.

[00:09:40] And no matter what that was, whether that was talking with somebody,

[00:09:43] whether that was taking the shot and Andre Agassi strength coach

[00:09:47] told me this a long time ago, he just said some battles are worth fighting

[00:09:50] even if you lose like I wanted to shot.

[00:09:52] No one that I don't care about missing like I failed before.

[00:09:56] It sucks for a while, but most of the story is in our head.

[00:10:00] But what I saw was

[00:10:03] there was a huge inability to be patient and wait for the results to happen.

[00:10:07] You know, so it was that's why I always felt that was such a hard book to write

[00:10:11] because it was a dichotomy of, you know, no one's ever going to say urgency is bad.

[00:10:16] I'm not saying that.

[00:10:17] I'm just saying urgency is the workout and patience is like the recovery.

[00:10:21] You've got to have recovery that's in there too, because that's when the muscles grow.

[00:10:25] Yeah, the notion of I love that you build out this sort of notion

[00:10:29] of urgent versus the important because that.

[00:10:33] That tension is this a central tension that leaders have to deal with, right?

[00:10:38] They have to put out the fires, but they can't.

[00:10:41] They always have to create room for the important.

[00:10:43] If you stop creating room for the important.

[00:10:49] You know, you're going to you will fail the people who are depending on you

[00:10:53] because as a leader, your job is to to keep the important in mind

[00:10:59] and only deal with the urgent to the extent that your team can't deal with it without you.

[00:11:05] And that takes particularly in this world where we have these notifications

[00:11:10] and we've got all kinds of like, you know, cortisol and oxytocin,

[00:11:13] all these things floating around and we're building these kind of neuro pathways

[00:11:17] related to our phones and email and all that stuff.

[00:11:21] You have to be able to face that down and say, I'm going to let these balls fall.

[00:11:28] And I'm going to be patient and carve out space to do this thoughtful, important work over here.

[00:11:33] And I know that

[00:11:37] that kind of realization happens for different people at different points in their career,

[00:11:41] but it's super cool that you spend so much time on it.

[00:11:44] Yeah.

[00:11:46] Well, my wife would disagree.

[00:11:47] It was a brutal process writing that stuff.

[00:11:50] But I appreciate the notion of a recognition for it.

[00:11:54] Yeah.

[00:11:54] We're talking about focusing on that, which is important.

[00:11:57] I mean, Playbook clinics, I mean, have 15 different sites across the country as an entrepreneur.

[00:12:03] I mean, the.

[00:12:06] Let me start with this part and then we'll kind of get into the entrepreneurial logistics part.

[00:12:10] I mean, the part that really attracted me to Playbook clinics was the convening panel.

[00:12:17] So you.

[00:12:19] You want to do what the coaches wanted to talk about, what they wanted to address.

[00:12:23] I mean, just fantastic notion, right?

[00:12:26] And you spoke about it before we just go find speakers.

[00:12:29] We've found the topics that coaches wanted to learn more about and then found speakers

[00:12:35] that would attach to that.

[00:12:36] Can you talk about that process?

[00:12:39] Yeah, I think there's a lot.

[00:12:41] There's a lot in there.

[00:12:43] Part of it is people want to be asked and they've got really good ideas and the closer

[00:12:48] to the closer to the center of the action that you can get and hear from and listen

[00:12:54] to them, the more raw, the more vulnerable, the more authentic, the more valuable

[00:12:59] the conversations will be.

[00:13:02] Part of it is if you want to create good clinics to support coaches and you want

[00:13:08] to do it in a place as diverse as Portland, Oregon, Atlanta, Georgia.

[00:13:13] Those are very different ecosystems.

[00:13:14] And so you'd be a fool not to ask for help and have guys kind of tell you

[00:13:20] like, this is how we do it in Charlotte or this is how we do it in Kansas City

[00:13:23] or Orange County.

[00:13:25] And so our why came from this idea that we have a couple of kind of key stories

[00:13:37] here. But if you could let me sort of frame it.

[00:13:42] Let me give you the whole story if I can just kind of give you the longer

[00:13:45] context because this will put some things into context for you.

[00:13:49] So in 2020 when COVID hit, my son was with three kids and my son was in eighth grade.

[00:13:58] And I'd just been a dad.

[00:13:59] I'd been his like flag football coach and my daughter's soccer coach

[00:14:03] and basketball and all that stuff.

[00:14:04] And as we were coming into 2021 and freshman football, he at that point

[00:14:11] a year or so into the pandemic, he was really struggling with his mental

[00:14:16] health like a lot of our kids are.

[00:14:18] Like a lot of us, all of us were and continue to be in some cases.

[00:14:22] And my football experience in high school was toxic and bad.

[00:14:28] And I did not want to send him into that environment.

[00:14:30] But I knew that the positive things about football would really help shape him.

[00:14:35] And so his COVID coming out of COVID, he could have gone a lot of different directions.

[00:14:39] And I just wanted to make sure that that football experience for him was positive.

[00:14:44] So I reached out to the head coach and asked if I could hold water on the sidelines.

[00:14:48] It's like, yeah, sure. Why don't you come help coach the freshman team?

[00:14:50] And then they said, oh, you didn't you don't suck that bad.

[00:14:53] Why don't you come help us on varsity?

[00:14:54] And and I coached at the semi pro level a little bit, just get some reps in.

[00:14:58] And and what I saw from that was that at our school, we exceeded all of my expectations

[00:15:05] in terms of culture and support.

[00:15:08] And and but that it was also clear a lot of other programs,

[00:15:12] a lot of other head coaches didn't have the tools they've hadn't really been taught

[00:15:17] how to develop culture, how to support mental health of kids coming out of COVID,

[00:15:22] how to do things like deal with parents who might have an acute anxiety

[00:15:24] about how their kids are performing, how to talk about string

[00:15:27] and conditioning in a way that talk that leads to injury prevention.

[00:15:30] And not just like what your bench is.

[00:15:33] So it became clear that the things that I cared about,

[00:15:37] there needed to be some place where we could support coaches

[00:15:41] in their development related to mental health, related to culture,

[00:15:45] related to leadership and these other things.

[00:15:47] And at the same time as a new coach, an old or new coach,

[00:15:52] I needed to go back to school on things like hand placement and footwork

[00:15:56] and some of the fundamentals and the clinics that I attended

[00:16:00] didn't didn't meet my needs.

[00:16:02] And so they didn't meet my needs on either the fundamentals or this

[00:16:07] this this other kind of soft skill stuff.

[00:16:10] And so as we started talking to head coaches,

[00:16:12] they the head coaches would all, you know, formally say, yes,

[00:16:15] we need that soft skill stuff and conversations because nothing can prepare you

[00:16:19] to be a head coach. Nobody talks about that stuff.

[00:16:23] Head coaches generally.

[00:16:26] Aren't always looking to their assistant coaches to help them think about these

[00:16:30] things. They don't always get an opportunity to connect with other head coaches,

[00:16:34] except for this clinic space.

[00:16:37] And so we thought, boy, coming out of covid,

[00:16:40] if there were an opportunity to support head coaches at 16000

[00:16:45] high schools across the country and they trusted you and they would turn

[00:16:48] to you on one weekend out of the year to come and learn from other coaches.

[00:16:54] What would you tell them?

[00:16:56] Like what would you give them in that one weekend?

[00:16:59] And so we built these convening panels to ask those guys, hey,

[00:17:04] what do we want to talk about? What do you want to talk about?

[00:17:06] Who do you know that would be awesome to speak about those issues

[00:17:09] and kind of percolated up.

[00:17:11] And there was kind of this natural confluence of both our why

[00:17:15] and our story about why we're getting involved in coaching high school football

[00:17:20] and what head coaches across country actually said they needed more information

[00:17:25] about more support of, which was the softer skills.

[00:17:27] Everybody knows scheme. Everybody has an opinion on about, you know,

[00:17:31] what kind of offense they want to run, even if you have no idea what you're

[00:17:34] talking about, you still have an opinion about the offense you want to run.

[00:17:36] But you didn't know maybe about

[00:17:40] how do I build community around my program?

[00:17:44] How do I get moms to feel like our program is going to be safe for their young men?

[00:17:50] How do we get teachers and parents or administration in the building

[00:17:54] to better support our program? How do we fundraise?

[00:17:56] How do we do strength and conditioning?

[00:17:57] All of these other things that have nothing to do with scheme.

[00:18:01] So we want that's kind of the long story.

[00:18:05] You know, you had the X's and O's.

[00:18:08] But as you mentioned, that building culture, program development,

[00:18:11] the mental health, dealing with parents, navigating recruitment, all these aspects to it.

[00:18:16] As you went around and for facilitating the clinics,

[00:18:21] what were a couple of the ideas, concepts

[00:18:28] that really gave you pause and made you think about it in terms of,

[00:18:33] hey, that is a great strategy. Any in particulars really stand out?

[00:18:38] This last weekend I was in Charlotte helping to host our Charlotte Clinic and

[00:18:45] sort of two kind of things really stood out to me.

[00:18:49] Like there's a bunch of stuff there. That was an awesome clinic,

[00:18:53] soul-filling kind of clinic.

[00:18:54] And one was this 80-year-old online coach, man.

[00:19:03] Coach McNally, he has spent 47 years coaching in the NFL.

[00:19:07] He was with us and at 80 years old, he's climbing up on these tables showing

[00:19:12] like how you have to, as you pass, protect,

[00:19:15] you got to pitch and toe your back foot just in a little bit.

[00:19:18] You stand up on this table at 80 years old

[00:19:22] and guys are there holding his hand, making sure it doesn't fall.

[00:19:25] And it's just like so awesome to see his passion

[00:19:29] and the love around him of all those guys in that room.

[00:19:33] And that was just one breakout room.

[00:19:34] I just thought like this is exactly what we're trying to do.

[00:19:37] We're trying to build a scaffolding where people who have passion and love can come

[00:19:41] and like help help spread that because that becomes an infection.

[00:19:45] So it's so cool.

[00:19:45] So Coach Jim McNally, rock star at 80 years old,

[00:19:49] I wish I could have half his energy when I get even now.

[00:19:53] And then this other experience after was all done and we had.

[00:19:58] We took everything down.

[00:19:59] We had broken everything down except for one room.

[00:20:01] There was about 10 guys still talking and we had a whiteboard in there.

[00:20:05] And they were just still whiteboarding together an hour and a half after the

[00:20:08] clinic was done and Coach Austin Trotter and a bunch of guys,

[00:20:14] Coach Tatum and Coach Gee were in there.

[00:20:16] And it was just like community.

[00:20:19] You know, it's like just a safe place where they could talk

[00:20:24] and build relationship.

[00:20:26] And it's like one of the it was just a reminder

[00:20:30] in that second example of kind of the challenge we face,

[00:20:33] particularly as men, particularly as we get older in building relationship

[00:20:38] in fighting isolation.

[00:20:40] And so the sort of kind of coolest things for me were

[00:20:46] were not necessarily about exes and those.

[00:20:48] It was about in the case of Coach McNally, passion and love

[00:20:52] and how that just becomes infectious.

[00:20:56] And this other piece like, hey, man, community is super important

[00:21:00] and we don't have as many opportunities as we get older.

[00:21:03] I'm forty eight now and some of those guys in that room were all younger than me.

[00:21:08] But we just have a lot of opportunity to build relationship

[00:21:11] once we leave college and move on in our lives.

[00:21:14] So just really awesome experiences, both of those.

[00:21:18] Yeah, I appreciate you sharing that.

[00:21:21] I mean, your passion comes out just talking about the

[00:21:24] you know, what you've been orchestrating put together.

[00:21:27] I mean, you put together the playing field and allowing these coaches to collaborate.

[00:21:31] I picture that in my head, right?

[00:21:33] Like all these coaches sitting around hour and a half after the conference is over.

[00:21:38] You know, I mean, how dedicated they are

[00:21:43] to being a coach.

[00:21:46] I'm convinced about this.

[00:21:48] I think the coaching blood runs so deep

[00:21:52] that it wouldn't matter what sport they were in.

[00:21:54] I bet they could be coaching chess or tennis and they would still be as

[00:21:58] effective coaches as they were because not about necessarily the sport,

[00:22:01] it's about the coaching rights and navigating the relationships.

[00:22:05] 100 percent, 100 percent.

[00:22:06] I tell our guys,

[00:22:11] our coaches, but also our kids like

[00:22:14] it turns out in the history of the world,

[00:22:17] nothing great that stood the test of time was built on anything except for love.

[00:22:24] You know, the Catholic Church, regardless of one's opinion of it,

[00:22:29] was not built on hate, you know, schools where we send our kids,

[00:22:34] you know, in all of our communities, those were not built out of indifference.

[00:22:40] Everything that has stood the test of time was built in some way, shape or form

[00:22:44] on love. And so championship football is the same thing.

[00:22:47] Championship anything is the same thing.

[00:22:50] It's built on love.

[00:22:51] And so in football, we talk about

[00:22:55] the sort of three pillars of that you have to love to compete.

[00:22:59] You have to love your team and you have to love yourself and love to compete.

[00:23:03] Means you got to be willing to get out of bed and go do the hard work

[00:23:05] because you want that thrill of being able to be able to be seen and have

[00:23:10] people look at you and say, you are good enough, you are a champion or you

[00:23:13] are not good enough, you came in eight out of eight teams.

[00:23:18] But it takes a vulnerability and that requires a love of competition

[00:23:22] and love for your team.

[00:23:24] And even if it's like tennis or golf and you still have a team around,

[00:23:28] you have coaches and sport, you have to understand that all of those people

[00:23:34] when you are a champion are all pulling in the same direction,

[00:23:37] you have to love and honor and respect all of what they are putting in

[00:23:41] to your success. And then ultimately, as you know, like you got to love yourself,

[00:23:45] you got to like we are the most prominent, most consistent voice in our head.

[00:23:51] And if we are not positive, we cannot do positive things.

[00:23:54] So we have to be intentional about loving ourselves just like we do with

[00:23:57] anybody else. And if we're not, we're not going to be successful.

[00:24:01] So I just think like a good coach, a good coach comes from a place of love.

[00:24:08] And whether that's chess to your point or football, if you don't have that heart,

[00:24:13] you're not going to be as effective as you could be.

[00:24:16] Which one of those three pillars do you think most coaches struggle with?

[00:24:22] I mean, I think we all, whether you're a coach or not,

[00:24:25] I think we all struggle the most with being loving yourself.

[00:24:29] Right.

[00:24:32] The idea that I mean, particularly high achievers,

[00:24:36] high achievers tend to focus on the 3% that I didn't get when I got the 97% score,

[00:24:44] or they focus on the one hit on the course where you tried to fade it and it turned

[00:24:49] out it just went straight.

[00:24:51] So we focus on the negative for good reason.

[00:24:56] But what that means is we have to be intentional about the positive.

[00:25:01] And, you know, sometimes that's like, I mean, I will when I'm when I'm down,

[00:25:06] I live in Seattle and so it's like gray in the winter and that will impact,

[00:25:11] you know, my mental health sometimes.

[00:25:13] And so sometimes I'll just be like, I'll look in the mirror and say, man,

[00:25:17] look how good you look today.

[00:25:19] You know, just to tell myself something nice because we all go through life.

[00:25:23] And like when was the last time somebody came up to you and said,

[00:25:25] man, you look good. You look good today.

[00:25:27] In my life that never happens.

[00:25:29] So so I have to help build myself up if I end.

[00:25:33] And so coaches, if we are not being intentional about saying nice things to ourselves,

[00:25:38] we are only going to be saying, look at this shortcoming.

[00:25:41] Look at that shortfall.

[00:25:42] Look at how you didn't succeed here and we're going to miss miss an opportunity

[00:25:47] to build ourselves up in the same way we want to try to build up to kids and

[00:25:50] people around us.

[00:25:51] Yeah, well said. Well said.

[00:25:55] Coach, again, you have 15 different sites this year.

[00:25:59] You know, as an entrepreneur who, you know,

[00:26:02] you study relationships and obviously the logistics, can you just talk about

[00:26:07] the logistics of putting this in place all across the country?

[00:26:11] What were what were the biggest challenges that you had to overcome?

[00:26:15] Yeah, it's been a heck of a ride.

[00:26:18] You know, first we had to go back to March of last year, 2023.

[00:26:23] We started negotiating with hotels and

[00:26:26] so we had to kind of take guesses on which hotels and which markets would be

[00:26:29] successful and and had to figure out models that would would work.

[00:26:35] Financial models for the hotel would work for us.

[00:26:39] Then we had to build a team, a great team of folks who

[00:26:44] understood our vision, bought in with a team of six and

[00:26:48] and so we're small but but mighty and and everyone had to understand kind

[00:26:53] of our why and and and then they had to go kind of find good coaches that wanted

[00:26:59] to help kind of amplify the why and understood how it fit with their their work.

[00:27:06] And so that took a lot of phone calls,

[00:27:07] a lot of conversations, a lot of email, a lot of Twitter DMs like

[00:27:12] but soon that kind of generated its own kind of momentum where people would say,

[00:27:16] hey, great conversation here are three other dudes I think you should talk

[00:27:19] to because I know them and they would love this.

[00:27:21] And so pretty soon we were

[00:27:24] networking pretty pretty widely and people were coming to us.

[00:27:28] And and then, you know, as we built the agenda, we had this kind of framework

[00:27:33] in a model and sort of secret sauce about how you kind of tee up some of these

[00:27:36] things and finding the speakers was super hard.

[00:27:39] We have 55 speakers on average at every one of our clinics.

[00:27:42] That's a lot of speakers that's a lot of people to come and get lined up.

[00:27:46] And then the logistics of actually holding the thing like we,

[00:27:50] you know, a lot of hotels like you rent the AV and protectors and screens.

[00:27:55] And if we did that, we would we would not make it financially.

[00:28:00] So we bought all this gear.

[00:28:02] We rented vans and we drove three vans all around the country.

[00:28:07] So for instance, I said I was in Charlotte this last weekend.

[00:28:11] After our clinic, I drove that van to Indianapolis.

[00:28:14] I met Emily on our team.

[00:28:16] Actually, I met Emily who was in Indianapolis.

[00:28:18] We met in Lexington, Kentucky.

[00:28:21] And then I transferred some gear to her van.

[00:28:23] I drove my van to Orlando.

[00:28:25] She drove her van to Minneapolis.

[00:28:28] We had another van that was going up and down the California coast.

[00:28:31] So like we're we're out on the road grinding and I drove 16 hours one day.

[00:28:36] I got up at four o'clock in Charlotte and then my day in Macon, Georgia.

[00:28:40] And went up to the Kentucky and the state line.

[00:28:43] So that's just hard work.

[00:28:47] That's just kind of just doing the thing that it takes.

[00:28:52] I'll add this, this is sort of parenthetically, but just

[00:28:56] there's this idea of science of complexity, which maybe only three of your

[00:29:00] listeners will even care about.

[00:29:01] But there are things there's chaos where nothing is related.

[00:29:05] There's simple or linear things where if A, then B, if B, then C kind of stuff,

[00:29:10] there are complicated things which are just

[00:29:15] a bunch of if A, then B things.

[00:29:17] And then there are complex things where there's multi variables and every

[00:29:20] variable influences each other and we are not in that complexity place.

[00:29:25] It's just complicated.

[00:29:27] And so for things that are just complicated, all that means is you just got to take

[00:29:30] time, you just got to do the work and you just got to put the puzzle pieces

[00:29:33] on the table and put it all together.

[00:29:35] So it's been hard, but not impossible.

[00:29:37] Yeah, no, I love it, Coach.

[00:29:40] With what that said, and I always talk with every one of our guests kind of about

[00:29:44] their hinge moments, right?

[00:29:45] That one moment person or event that connects who we are with,

[00:29:52] with who we eventually become.

[00:29:55] Sometimes we don't know these moments happen to a week's months, years later.

[00:29:58] But tragedy is obviously our immediate hinges because from that moment on,

[00:30:01] everything's different.

[00:30:02] But what's a hinge moment that you can share with our listeners?

[00:30:07] You know, the

[00:30:10] my top three hinge moments, the three most impactful things in my life are one,

[00:30:14] marrying my wife, far and with most important thing that I've ever done.

[00:30:18] And two, having my kids,

[00:30:21] we have three kids and, you know, gosh,

[00:30:25] I'm just super proud to be their dad.

[00:30:28] How did you and your wife meet?

[00:30:31] We met at a bar like it was, you know, why did you go to that bar that night?

[00:30:37] So my friend had an emergency surgery

[00:30:43] and had to go into the hospital.

[00:30:46] And I was teaching community college in those days.

[00:30:50] And so his girlfriend at the time called and said,

[00:30:52] hey, there's this thing happening, emergency surgeries going under general

[00:30:56] anesthesia, they're kind of open.

[00:30:58] Can you come down and be here when he wakes up?

[00:31:00] And I was like, absolutely.

[00:31:01] I ran down and I was like,

[00:31:03] I was like, man, I was with a friend.

[00:31:06] I was like, I can really, really use a drink right now.

[00:31:10] Why don't we go pull off a little steam and get a beer or something?

[00:31:12] And so we went up and I was just looking like,

[00:31:15] you know, I look and I had Stan Smith's shoes on and wrinkled khaki pants

[00:31:19] and wrinkled polo and I just went up and I was like,

[00:31:22] I'm going to be here.

[00:31:24] And I was like, I'm going to be here when he wakes up.

[00:31:27] And I was like, absolutely.

[00:31:29] I ran down and spent the spent the day there kind of being with him

[00:31:32] and wrinkled polo and I just was down the mess.

[00:31:34] But we showed up to this bar

[00:31:37] and then my wife to be was there and she had come in from work.

[00:31:42] She was all dressed up and and it's like, hey,

[00:31:47] you know, do you want to dance?

[00:31:48] And so we dance at this like little, you know,

[00:31:50] and neither of us were very good dancers.

[00:31:52] She was better than me.

[00:31:53] And then just went from there and I was so poor.

[00:31:59] I couldn't I couldn't I asked her out

[00:32:02] like, you know, I lost her card.

[00:32:04] I asked her out three weeks later and I was so poor.

[00:32:08] I was like, I can't what am I, you know,

[00:32:10] I'll ask her for coffee because, you know, Seattle go get coffee.

[00:32:13] She's like, I don't like coffee.

[00:32:14] It's like, well, how about hot chocolate?

[00:32:15] She's like, OK, hot chocolate.

[00:32:17] And so my our first date,

[00:32:19] start with hot chocolate and so that

[00:32:22] also that's like the hand moment.

[00:32:25] Obviously, there's layers to it, but your friend having surgery.

[00:32:29] If he doesn't have immediate surgery,

[00:32:30] you don't go to that bar then.

[00:32:32] Correct. Now these these and so I always love to take that just a little bit

[00:32:38] different route, you know, but I appreciate you sharing that.

[00:32:41] What was the third one?

[00:32:42] What was the third hinge moment?

[00:32:44] Go on to Gonzaga University, change my life.

[00:32:48] And that's sort of an interesting story, too.

[00:32:50] I grew up in Bend, Oregon

[00:32:52] and I worked at a place called Jake's Truck Stop.

[00:32:55] I had a lot of jobs grown up, but I was working at this place called

[00:32:58] Jake's Truck Stop in high school and, you know,

[00:33:05] truck stops are not for the glamorous and this one was not either.

[00:33:10] And I asked the owner one day, I was like, hey,

[00:33:13] what do you know about this university in Spokane called Whitworth University?

[00:33:17] Said a lot of nothing about Whitworth University,

[00:33:19] but I know the smartest guy I know went to Gonzaga.

[00:33:22] Why would you like to talk to him?

[00:33:23] I was like, yeah, sure.

[00:33:25] I was, I guess, 17th time.

[00:33:28] And so four or five hours later into my eight hour work day,

[00:33:33] I was upstairs in the bathroom cleaning toilets at a truck stop.

[00:33:38] That's not something everybody gets the opportunity to do.

[00:33:42] Oh, Norwood one, two.

[00:33:44] And this guy shows up and I'm in like in this stall, cleaning stuff up.

[00:33:49] And he's like, hey, you know, is there a DJ in here?

[00:33:52] And I said, yeah, he's like, OK, well, just take your time, come on out

[00:33:55] and I was like, I'll be there in just a second.

[00:33:57] And so he came out and I came out of the stall after I was done.

[00:34:01] And he's like, hey, you know, I hear you're interested in Gonzaga University.

[00:34:05] And so this guy was kind of a big shot in the in the oil and gas industry.

[00:34:10] And he stopped what he was doing and came talk to me.

[00:34:11] And and I was probably like the last kid in to Gonzaga.

[00:34:19] But they created room for me.

[00:34:21] And and it was a and his, you know, he was very kind and and help say nice things

[00:34:28] about me. And and so that cleaning stalls moment at Jake's truck stop got me

[00:34:34] connected to Gonzaga University, which then becomes my one of my hinge moments.

[00:34:39] I love it. I love it.

[00:34:40] Coach Gonzaga, right? Not Gonzaga.

[00:34:42] That's right. That's right.

[00:34:44] G-U-N-Z-A-G-A go Gonzaga.

[00:34:46] You're going to make sure that is that's clear for the list.

[00:34:49] That's right. That's right.

[00:34:51] Not the first Gonzaga that Gonzagian

[00:34:56] that we've had on the on the show, believe it or not, though,

[00:34:58] Sandy Zimmerman, who was also on American Ninja Warrior, she went to Gonzaga,

[00:35:03] played, played basketball there, believe it or not.

[00:35:04] So first mom to ever hit the buzzer on American Ninja Warrior.

[00:35:09] Really? That's great.

[00:35:11] Yeah, she's she's a fantastic lady.

[00:35:13] She still lives there and great, great hinge moments, great person.

[00:35:17] She still lives there in Washington as well.

[00:35:18] So that's great.

[00:35:21] DJ, what question

[00:35:24] should I be asking that that I haven't asked?

[00:35:28] Oh, I don't know.

[00:35:31] How about you? I mean, tell me,

[00:35:33] give me give me the the biggest dream,

[00:35:37] the biggest goal that you have,

[00:35:41] that you have not allowed yourself to believe you can achieve yet.

[00:35:46] The thing that you're like,

[00:35:48] boy, it would be so amazing if we could do that.

[00:35:51] But that's a little that's a little bit of a stretch.

[00:35:52] It'd be so amazing if we could do this.

[00:35:53] But all these other more manageable dreams,

[00:35:56] but the thing that be like, wow,

[00:35:58] this would be so super cool and I actually might do it,

[00:36:01] but I'm not quite ready to commit yet.

[00:36:05] What is that for you?

[00:36:07] Well, I still think it's

[00:36:10] I mean, the biggest one is still having a major winner.

[00:36:13] You know, being able to be in the mental coach for a

[00:36:15] major winner.

[00:36:17] I've had a PGA tour winners,

[00:36:20] but not a major winner yet.

[00:36:22] And the life of a sports psychology coach

[00:36:26] with professional athletes in particular,

[00:36:28] sometimes it's long, sometimes it's short,

[00:36:30] just depends on the athlete mindset where they are in their career.

[00:36:36] And I put yet in that because I know it will happen.

[00:36:39] I just don't know when.

[00:36:41] But that is where

[00:36:44] you know, to win a major event.

[00:36:46] Very few people do it.

[00:36:47] There's only four year obviously

[00:36:49] it's happened with with tennis on the double side,

[00:36:53] but it hasn't happened on the golf side.

[00:36:55] So that's the one

[00:36:58] that is still the North Star that is that is directing and

[00:37:04] and again, it'll happen.

[00:37:07] A lot of that is in God's hand, though.

[00:37:09] But I'm always

[00:37:11] doing the best job I can with every athlete I work with.

[00:37:15] So I'm sure

[00:37:18] any of us who have competed at all

[00:37:22] know that only one really good team or one really good athlete

[00:37:26] ends the season with a win.

[00:37:29] Everybody else falls short.

[00:37:32] And you are probably a tremendous caregiver for all of your athletes.

[00:37:39] How do you think about your own self care when

[00:37:43] you have poured yourself into a season or tournament and you

[00:37:48] you're the people that you care about that you're working with come up short?

[00:37:52] How do you then reflect back and say, OK, I have to actually heal a little bit myself here?

[00:37:57] Yeah, the biggest thing that's helped with me, I mean, obviously,

[00:37:59] I think there are strategies with the biggest back to to your identity and my identity.

[00:38:04] And it's not really in my performance.

[00:38:06] I mean, most of the life it has been, but it's rooted in God and what God says about me.

[00:38:10] It's the only way to be able to cope with the highest level

[00:38:14] of athletics and to come up short

[00:38:17] is to know that I'm not my performance because if I am my performance, then

[00:38:21] I'm only as good as my last performance.

[00:38:23] I'm only as good as what other people are going to say about me.

[00:38:25] And that that's that road does not last.

[00:38:30] And it's a roller coaster of

[00:38:33] ups and downs.

[00:38:35] And even when you're the best, you're not the best very long.

[00:38:38] And

[00:38:39] it's that that's what it's always been rooted in is my identity and God and Christ.

[00:38:47] How do you think about

[00:38:50] transformation of your athletes?

[00:38:54] How do you think about transforming lives?

[00:38:56] Sometimes the

[00:38:59] sometimes the ego that can be associated with competition and winning

[00:39:04] stands in conflict with our soul or spirit or message that we're carrying.

[00:39:11] How do you how do you think about that?

[00:39:16] So

[00:39:17] that one is

[00:39:20] depending on where the athlete is right then on their journey.

[00:39:24] So the earlier we can get them, I'd say we can get them.

[00:39:28] But the earlier that people are speaking truth into the life, the better path

[00:39:31] they're going to go on.

[00:39:33] What I mean by that is better people make better athletes,

[00:39:38] better athletes do not make better people.

[00:39:41] So just because somebody is excellent in one skill set does not make them a great person.

[00:39:46] And I want to work with great people and I want to work with people that

[00:39:51] and basically answer that question.

[00:39:53] There has to be a why that is bigger than just holding up that trophy.

[00:39:58] I've worked with athletes who why

[00:40:02] whose why is to build tennis courts and underserved communities.

[00:40:07] That that runs deep because that's not about them.

[00:40:09] And so it's really it's having them tap into what is a why that is greater

[00:40:14] than themselves, because if it's greater than themselves, then it becomes

[00:40:17] a unity piece and it becomes

[00:40:20] you know us, we and I try to say this one a lot.

[00:40:26] But it's a better us makes a better you and a better you is what makes us.

[00:40:31] So it's just about making the us

[00:40:34] larger and having that greater mission than just what the.

[00:40:39] Non-amiguitity of sport can provide.

[00:40:42] And so what do you find your your mission to be?

[00:40:47] So and I like the way that you flip this, by the way, because they're still recording.

[00:40:52] I don't get to talk a lot on my podcast, man.

[00:40:55] My North Star changes.

[00:40:58] So it has two things.

[00:40:59] One, I want people to recognize and seize that hinge moment

[00:41:02] that you don't know what it's going to look like or what it's going to be.

[00:41:05] But the other part is I want people to operate free of fear and anxiety.

[00:41:11] Want them to be

[00:41:13] that's how I want to perform free of anxiety and fear.

[00:41:16] And that that is the ultimate goal.

[00:41:20] I love that.

[00:41:21] I mean, I think that's we have so many.

[00:41:26] Things pushing us towards fear or the or shame or the shadows and.

[00:41:33] There's nothing.

[00:41:36] There's nothing good.

[00:41:37] I mean, we're a little bit most of us are a little bit past and removed.

[00:41:42] Pure survival modes where we need to worry about the lions on the Savannah.

[00:41:47] You know,

[00:41:50] most of us, as you know, to your point, are.

[00:41:54] Holding ourselves back because we're not because we're living in fear or shame or

[00:41:59] guilt or something, it's the most corrosive influence out there.

[00:42:05] So we got to overcome that.

[00:42:07] How do you how do you what council?

[00:42:10] What advice would you have for coaches of high school kids?

[00:42:15] In terms of like trying to heal themselves, overcome

[00:42:19] some of that fear, guilt, shame and then how to roll model it so that these young

[00:42:24] people know they can see what overcoming looks like.

[00:42:29] Yeah, it's it's multifaceted.

[00:42:32] One, I think of coaches that they can't do it all.

[00:42:37] So you have to bring in those that are around you.

[00:42:40] That network is going to be around you and then be able to equip these

[00:42:43] coaches to handle those sort of responsibilities.

[00:42:47] That's the importance, I think, of mental coaching,

[00:42:51] sports psychology in general is being the other is

[00:42:56] coaches job is to create that environment where people feel loved.

[00:43:02] They feel worthy not on what they do, but just who they are as an individual.

[00:43:06] You know, and if you pay attention like everybody has that's something

[00:43:10] that they bring to the practice, it's not always going to be in the

[00:43:17] stat column or the box sheet.

[00:43:19] But they have that gift.

[00:43:21] And I think if we can create that and make sure people just understand that

[00:43:25] this skill that you have like this, this gift, this sense of humor that you

[00:43:29] have with this ability to look somebody that I like, that's going to last

[00:43:33] way beyond what sport is over.

[00:43:36] And so when coaches create that environment,

[00:43:41] then what it also does in my belief is allow them to coach the athlete hard

[00:43:47] because they know that they're going to be loved and they know that they're trying

[00:43:50] to get the best out of them.

[00:43:53] Too often we miss that step and just coach them really hard.

[00:43:57] But then we miss the real growth, I think, that takes place.

[00:44:03] So I think if athletes can understand that look, they're loved and appreciated

[00:44:08] for more than what they do performance wise, that that's just part of it.

[00:44:14] That that's how they respond.

[00:44:16] And I hate the term buy in.

[00:44:18] I don't use buying at all.

[00:44:19] I think it's allowing the athletes take ownership of it.

[00:44:22] When they take ownership of it, boom, now they're communicating better.

[00:44:25] Right now they have a little bit more confidence.

[00:44:27] Now, now they're leading.

[00:44:30] And these are skills that last way beyond what sports over.

[00:44:32] And that's that's what I think like the real goal of it is.

[00:44:35] And the higher that we get, the more that there just becomes more external

[00:44:40] influences in with that.

[00:44:41] But the fundamentals always stay the same. Fundamentals never change.

[00:44:44] Everyone's walking around with that special sign that says make me feel special.

[00:44:49] And the more and more that coaches can do that, the better I think the athletes

[00:44:52] are going to become better people and they're going to respond on

[00:44:56] on and off the corner of the field.

[00:44:58] Want to listen to your favorite music, but you're sick of all the commercial

[00:45:02] interruptions and negative news today.

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[00:45:17] at KUKO radio dot com.

[00:45:22] It's interesting, you know,

[00:45:24] I don't know anything about a lot of stuff.

[00:45:26] And one of the things I have no idea about is

[00:45:29] high level golf and tennis and

[00:45:33] but I will say in the football world, particularly,

[00:45:37] particularly the college level right now.

[00:45:41] A lot of coaches are just very unhappy, miserable.

[00:45:47] Good example,

[00:45:48] so a guy named Ryan Grubb, who was the offensive coordinator at the University

[00:45:53] of Washington, went to the University of Alabama with his head coach,

[00:45:57] came on the board and then opted to go to the NFL as the offensive coordinator

[00:46:03] for the CLC Hawks all within a matter of a couple of months because he said like

[00:46:08] the NFL is a better, healthier place than college football.

[00:46:12] And

[00:46:14] nobody would have said that even just a few years ago.

[00:46:17] But like college football now, like

[00:46:22] I don't know anybody who.

[00:46:25] Gosh, I guess maybe that's not quite right,

[00:46:28] but I don't know a lot of guys who are healthy and happy in college football

[00:46:35] coaching right now. It's such a grind.

[00:46:39] Think figuring out how to take care.

[00:46:42] It's very hard to take care of others if you can't take care of yourself.

[00:46:44] And I know in the football world, we're all a little bit kind of worried

[00:46:48] about what's happening in college football right now and

[00:46:50] how it's getting kind of deconstructed and the influence of money.

[00:46:53] Money's always been there, but it's just changing and different now.

[00:46:56] Yeah, you know, until I said this to ADs years ago, I mean, early 2000s,

[00:47:03] I said as long as football remains

[00:47:06] connected to the university and the University Sports Department, I said it's

[00:47:11] not going to work because we know the model is broken, but we don't know

[00:47:14] how to fix it and let's just keep getting money and keep winning.

[00:47:17] Right? We just, well, when you have an entire conference that just dissolves

[00:47:24] in a matter of a weekend, I mean, just dissolves, man, it's gone.

[00:47:30] I mean, it shows you the fragility of the foundation that we're operating on.

[00:47:34] And so until you can remove football and it's separate, completely separate

[00:47:39] from the athletics department, it's just not going to work because you have

[00:47:43] competing entities on both sides that are always going back to one another.

[00:47:46] And every time I mentioned to the AD, they just kind of poo poo it and say,

[00:47:51] yeah, that is never going to happen.

[00:47:52] You know what I mean? Well, I was like, OK, that's fine.

[00:47:54] But I mean, you have competing interests because it's just it's such an entire

[00:47:59] business by itself that it's just it will eventually turn there.

[00:48:05] But I think you need to have some figureheads that are going to take

[00:48:07] really the lead and make that make that happen.

[00:48:12] But again, I mean, man, it's just what I see because I agree with you.

[00:48:16] Yeah. And even guys like Chip Kelly, who was the head coaching

[00:48:20] University of California, Los Angeles, UCLA, opted out.

[00:48:25] He's been an NFL guy.

[00:48:26] He's been successful college coach opted out of the head coaching

[00:48:30] profession so he could go be the OCA Ohio State.

[00:48:34] That's that says a lot.

[00:48:36] And when you've got and he was one of these figureheads, right?

[00:48:40] He came out and was advocating that we need to carve out into its own sort

[00:48:44] of league college football, at least amongst Power Five.

[00:48:48] And people haven't particularly outside of college sports don't understand how

[00:48:53] this trickle down effect will impact women's sports and impact all other sports,

[00:48:57] except for maybe college basketball, men's college basketball.

[00:49:00] But all other sports are at risk and in some peril because of funding

[00:49:07] because of things like Title Nine.

[00:49:10] You know, it's we're just we're watching

[00:49:13] the deconstruction of college athletics as we know it right now.

[00:49:17] And it is I mean, it's totally separate.

[00:49:19] You cannot say men's tennis team or women's

[00:49:24] rolling team is the same as a college high level program.

[00:49:30] Like it's not even close to being on the same.

[00:49:32] But they share the same resources and are thrown into the same pot.

[00:49:36] So, hey, man, I can go years on this button.

[00:49:39] We get into sports sociology piece.

[00:49:41] You know, I love it. But DJ, man, I never really had a few times where people flip

[00:49:48] the script on me, ask me questions, but these are really high intelligent people.

[00:49:52] So I can tell that is definitely one of you.

[00:49:55] I'll let you drop the mic.

[00:49:57] Just put the plug in, man, because you had a really successful 2024 with

[00:50:02] with Playbook clinics, just working people find more information about you

[00:50:07] and the clinics for 2025.

[00:50:10] Yeah, I'd love to have them check us out at Playbook clinics.com.

[00:50:14] We got a lot of great stuff, including videos of like some of our clinics and under

[00:50:18] our news tab there, sort of featuring some of the guys who are pouring their heart

[00:50:23] into young men and into these clinics and our Twitter feed just at Playbook

[00:50:27] clinics has a ton of stuff in terms of elevating voices from coaches across

[00:50:33] country who've been involved or maybe are just coming in and learning about us.

[00:50:36] So wherever we can shine a light on somebody doing great stuff,

[00:50:40] we want to do it. And thanks to you, Rob, for just continuing to do the same kind

[00:50:44] of thing, right? Putting a light on good stuff and casting a bunch of seeds

[00:50:50] and letting those grow into and the prosperity for folks.

[00:50:53] So thanks for doing what you're doing.

[00:50:55] Awesome. Thanks, CJ.

[00:51:02] Thanks for listening to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell.

[00:51:06] To find out more about Dr.

[00:51:07] Rob, visit his website at DrRobBell.com or follow him on Twitter at DrRobBell

[00:51:14] and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next

[00:51:18] episode of Mental Toughness as soon as it's available.

[00:51:22] Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.