Ep. 138 - John Brubaker - Ted Lasso's Mental Toughness Coaching

[00:00:00] Welcome to Mental Toughness with Dr. Rob Bell. Each week, Dr. Rob sits down with athletes,

[00:00:16] executives and expert coaches to talk about mental toughness and their hinge moment. Here's

[00:00:22] your host, Dr. Rob.

[00:00:30] Well, I think that Ted Lasso's superpower is, yeah, he's got great human relation skills, but the

[00:00:42] superpower with that is he doesn't think he has all the answers. He's willing to listen to his players.

[00:00:48] It's our guest today is a friend. We both attended Temple University and we've stayed connected

[00:00:58] over the years at different times though, however, it's much, much older than I am. He is a performance

[00:01:04] consultant coach, author, speaker. He's written several books, seeds of success, stadium status,

[00:01:10] and the coach approach. And then also wrote beyond stadium status among other books, which we will delve into today.

[00:01:18] One of these is the big book of brew, which is actually smaller book and the book he's reading right now.

[00:01:26] The Lasso Way. You can see it here. He also created a chin up chest out. You can find him on coachbrue.com. Our guest is

[00:01:38] John Brewbaker. John, man, it's been I think too long, but thanks for coming on man and taking the time, bud.

[00:01:46] Thank you. Great to be back, Rob.

[00:01:48] So let's talk about Twitter for a second X. Sorry.

[00:01:52] Yes.

[00:01:54] I mean, you have a fantastic sense of humor on Twitter.

[00:01:58] I know this is a vague question, but where do you, where do you get off on just being so funny on X?

[00:02:06] So first off, I think I ought to have you tell that to my wife because my wife does not find me in the least bit humorous on social media.

[00:02:19] Really specifically not on Twitter.

[00:02:23] Because every now and then I've met my frustrations, but I try and do so in a fairly innocuous way.

[00:02:34] You know, unless it involves just utter utter wasting of our tax dollars by the government.

[00:02:42] That's probably my biggest beef that I've been about that frustrates her, but you know, I just I try and find humor in everyday life.

[00:02:51] The other day I was waiting in line at Starbucks and there were like three or four is group three or four co eds talking and somebody asked one, one of them asked the other if they've ever been to Kauai.

[00:03:10] And they said, no, I've never left the country.

[00:03:14] And like so I just like literally just hit record on my phone. I'm just standing there like holding my phone out as if I'm like, just scrolling but I'm just recording it because like truth is stranger than fiction.

[00:03:28] And then I tweeted the conversation and

[00:03:34] I just didn't know that I was just going to go back and look at it, but it's just humor in everyday life because I think you know some things are so either dark or frustrating that if we don't find humor in it, it can get the pressing.

[00:03:51] You know, so I try and spin things maybe to a positive like him.

[00:03:55] I start with your coaching career and how you got into college coaching and start us from there, and then kind of like your experience with it. And then I'll kind of lead it from there, but but start to us about that.

[00:04:06] Yeah, so I was in grad school at Temple University in 1993.

[00:04:11] Yeah, I always thought like I'd want to be youth lacrosse coach as a college lacrosse player at fairly Dickinson University.

[00:04:19] And I caught coaching bugs so I just coached like a youth team, wreck league type thing and you know in the evenings or weekends after school.

[00:04:30] And then somebody approached me about somebody ran into one the field, you know after again just happened to be out there.

[00:04:40] Approach me about a college position that was available at his college that he attended college kid.

[00:04:48] And it was at Cabrini University in Philadelphia.

[00:04:52] And I, you know, I just thought hey, you know it's I always think like anything is probably worth a phone call.

[00:04:57] You have those hinge moments this is probably one of them.

[00:05:01] Anything's worth a phone call so I just called and inquired and I had wonder what this would be like.

[00:05:06] And when in for an interview that's where I met my coaching mentor, he offered me a position. It was a very unique unorthodox interview. That would be another whole podcast episode but basically, you know, this older, disheveled man shows up at the door.

[00:05:21] I'm dressed in like a coat and tie. And you said you ever line of field.

[00:05:27] And I'm like, no, sorry, so the really you're going to today.

[00:05:32] I was grossly overdressed for what turned out to be the interview but they got basically was kind of planned.

[00:05:39] You know, hey, oh, I forgot the paint. Can you go back into the into the storage shed and get the paint.

[00:05:45] And then he would, you know, you had a line of field to take two states with a string make the sideline.

[00:05:51] He would hold it like really crooked and just see if I would tell him hey, you need to move it over a couple inches to the right.

[00:05:59] Or if I would just accept things at face value, not question authority, not put attention to detail into my work.

[00:06:07] Like I didn't realize that was the interview, but you know, I tried to coach him up a little and, you know, make some adjustments there and he offered me the job.

[00:06:17] And that's really when I got the coaching bug.

[00:06:20] And I decided that's what I wanted to make my career.

[00:06:25] I didn't want to be a sports psychologist.

[00:06:29] I didn't want to be like on the clinical side sitting, you know, as a psychologist sitting in office hearing other people's problems all day.

[00:06:39] You know, I wanted to be out recruiting and coaching and teaching.

[00:06:43] And that, you know, led me down to 12 year career path but the funny part to bring that full circles when I became a head coach.

[00:06:51] I said, hey, I'm interviewing an assistant coach candidate for my assistant job.

[00:06:59] What do you recommend? What questions do you think I ought to ask the guy?

[00:07:04] He's like questions. You'll just take him out and have him line of field with it.

[00:07:07] That'll tell you everything you need to know about him.

[00:07:10] So like I had no idea that the interview and the questions in the test was just helping him line and athletic field when I was not until you asked him.

[00:07:20] Yep, did you put it together? Okay. Yeah. So it's kind of like Yoda.

[00:07:25] There's very much a Yoda like quality about him and wasn't always endearing sometimes it was frustrating but there's just like an awful lot of wisdom there if you could use discernment and extract it.

[00:07:39] And they turned into me being a coach for 12 years. I had a wonderful career, but you know, I think like all things your career is a shelf life and as burned the candle of both ends and ended up getting out 12 years later.

[00:07:54] I was just burning out.

[00:07:56] So I want to ask you about, you know, a couple of mountain top moments and then sort of like coming off that mountain top and what one of those valleys were because that was a hinge moment as well.

[00:08:06] And that was when you got your message. But back to the lining of the field, I mean it kind of reminds me of I think what was it like JP Morgan if he was hiring executive would take him out to lunch.

[00:08:18] He wanted to see if they put salt on their food because if he puts salt on their food before they even tried it, he wouldn't hire him because that was showing that they were rash and rushed to judgment.

[00:08:30] It was sort of like the last litmus test but I mean that seems what your coach did and in that circumstance was sort of like a lunch test.

[00:08:38] I think there are a lot of little tests that people use. I've heard the one about JP Morgan, the other that I really like, you know, that I used was you go on a home visit with a recruit and their parents like how do they treat their mom? Are they respectful to their mom or they respect for the dad if they are great.

[00:08:56] We can continue the conversation if they're not.

[00:08:59] If you're respectful to your parents, you're not going to be respectful to your teachers and coaches. Yeah, that was a deal breaker for me, but that was one another one of those little tests.

[00:09:09] Hey, good looking. If you like this podcast and are already a badass but it's all way too complicated then visit our website, drrobbell.com and schedule call with us to help capture your very own hinge moment.

[00:09:39] So talk to us of what was a what was the mountaintop moment as a across coach?

[00:09:45] A lot of mount top moments are just getting a kid through school that maybe you took a chance on.

[00:09:51] Couldn't have gotten in on their own merit, unfortunately they had athletic ability and you had to go to bat for them with admissions and you know that that bet ended up paying off and they just had an opportunity to shine.

[00:10:06] So you know beyond the field that's probably every time that happened that's a mountaintop moment in my opinion.

[00:10:12] I didn't coach division one I was at small college level where you're teaching classes and coaching and fundraising and doing 20 other things to justify the peanuts they paid you so

[00:10:25] you know it was everything's always about the relationships for me, you know sure we won some championships went to NCAA final four in 2002.

[00:10:35] I had all Americans academic all Americans like that that was all great but at the end of the day you know I think you're in the relationship business and whatever you do.

[00:10:45] And for me the mountaintop moments are always in the relationships.

[00:10:51] Yeah and that's with anything you take out coaching and insert any other profession.

[00:10:57] Sure coach brew.

[00:11:00] You talk about in your book you know your mess being your message which I love that line as well you're fired on your birthday.

[00:11:09] Talk to us about that experience how that was strange strange mountaintop moment.

[00:11:15] So that went to rally that was a mountain top moment strangely I thought it was Valley it was actually a mountaintop so the irony of that whole situation was we had just you know I just come off a year earlier you know our best season and program history went to the NCAA final four finished up third in the country.

[00:11:35] I lost the eventual national champions and a year later you know my athletic director walked in my office and it's the end of the season.

[00:11:47] And we had like a I think we finished seven and nine you know we had graduated 120 points from the year before like we're young but we're on a good path and we had a great recruiting class.

[00:11:58] You just said hey John do you have a minute I should share come on in have a seat is that guy it's okay it won't take that long.

[00:12:05] And so I just got out of the meeting with president of college and we came to the conclusion there's only one thing keeping us from winning a national championship and we'll across.

[00:12:16] So here I am thinking okay finally i'm going to get the 10.8 full scholarships that everybody else in early had we're at you know for forever or I was going to go full time assistant at a part time assistant who got $4,000 room and board.

[00:12:34] And that was it like you can't compete right without the resources so i've been very vocal about lobbying for and asking for you know upgrades and scholarship and staff.

[00:12:47] Some wondering like you're coming off meeting with the president ad comes in says the ad met with the president says that okay now in my mind i'm wondering which is it going to be.

[00:12:59] Well time to say that i'm getting the scholarships help maybe i'm getting both.

[00:13:04] And he said that one thing that's keeping us from winning a national championship and men's lacrosse is you we're making a change.

[00:13:13] And he takes out of his co pocket he takes an envelope out passes it across my desk and walks out in the envelope was a pink slip the proverbial pink slip.

[00:13:27] And they're kind enough to give me a whopping three months severance.

[00:13:32] Renegged on the final month.

[00:13:35] Because by then they hired somebody else and that happened on my birthday now the real irony of that is my athletic director who remain nameless we'll just call him Carl.

[00:13:48] Because that's his name.

[00:13:51] Famous for remembering people's birthdays we'd have an emergency staff meeting air quotes you know on like a Tuesday at lunchtime and call the whole staff in and roll in on like one of those AV cards he'd roll into big sheet cake for whoever's birthday it was that week.

[00:14:12] And he was a president's cards that kind of thing he was great with remembering people's birthdays.

[00:14:18] And you know i definitely got birthday present it wasn't an actual tangible present that you would you know unwrap the box and open up it was a gift.

[00:14:31] It was a perspective because I was burning the candle at both ends i was kind of taking a flame throw to it sleeping in the office some nights.

[00:14:41] My oldest daughter had just been born a week before the season started I was out the door before she was up and get home at night after she was in bed I ain't see her for the first you know the four months of her life essentially.

[00:14:55] And you know I had to hit pause and find some balance and some perspective and it ended up being the best possible thing for me personally and professionally I just didn't know what at the time.

[00:15:10] So at the time it was the worst but ended up becoming the best yep now took a while to get there so I say it was a mountaintop moment but that's only connecting the dots backwards right right well said we'll talk to us about like what was that progression like me how did that.

[00:15:24] Become then the best moment.

[00:15:26] So.

[00:15:29] Full disclosure I was clinically depressed you know I was just literally like sitting in my living room chair from the time I got up in the morning you know straight through the whole work day I had nowhere to be.

[00:15:44] So I was just like happy got fired after I got fired just sitting at home and you know my wife would come home and I think it was like day five.

[00:15:56] She's looked at me she's like you can sit there as long as you want but you start to stink up the living room at least go take a shower and change your clothes.

[00:16:05] So I did that I decided I need to talk to somebody I didn't live with about what was going on so I.

[00:16:14] sought out a therapist high you know five stars highly recommend anybody ought to be in therapy at some point in their life some way shape or form.

[00:16:23] And therapist encouraged me to keep a journal.

[00:16:26] I really started journaling you know my thoughts my feelings and that morphed into just journaling about the parallels between you know sports leadership in sports my time you know 12 years prior as a coach.

[00:16:42] And just sort of how that translates into quote the real world outside of college athletics and academia.

[00:16:51] And you know a couple months in I ended up getting a job working on air for ESPN radio which is kind of like working in America's toy department with toy departmental life as I would call it.

[00:17:04] That that's why I really started speaking about it more writing about it and turned into a journal actually turned into my first book the coach approach.

[00:17:15] But yeah so that that was kind of the process right after getting fired and just kind of you know it's what happens to you versus how you respond to what happens to you.

[00:17:25] And I don't think that's something you know something that big and traumatic like that's one of the top five major life events anyone can have getting married moving job change funeral.

[00:17:37] And I forget the fifth one but it's pretty traumatic I don't think you get through it alone so.

[00:17:44] I encourage anybody going through anything like that any kind of major life transition finds some help could be a coach could be a therapist could just be you know close mentor that you can lean on yeah.

[00:17:57] Because I always say there are two types of coaches right those that have been fired and then those that eventually will be fired.

[00:18:04] And if you don't think you're going to fall into character category number two like give it a little more time yeah yeah.

[00:18:11] But yeah coaches are hired to be fired at every level you know coach the minor sport small college level and I got fired for you know not winning enough.

[00:18:20] Mm-hmm can happen you know in a minor sport the small college level it can happen anywhere.

[00:18:26] Yeah I want to talk about the last away book and then the book of brew big book but first I wanted to ask like you know 2019 pre pandemic and that's how life is now right it's pre pandemic or post pandemic that's how this.

[00:18:43] See an AD isn't it yeah see an AD got it man and so but in 2019 I mean you had injury.

[00:18:52] And then you know the mental injuries that took place took took its toll on you you've shared about that can you share your experience.

[00:19:01] Absolutely I appreciate you asking that most people don't go there site appreciate you going there.

[00:19:08] I had a pretty significant neck injury pinch nerve in my neck I couldn't lift my arm like up above my shoulder and.

[00:19:19] It was going to be spinal fusion surgery fortunately I nearly avoided that with the help of a really good doctor really good physical therapist.

[00:19:28] You know a lot of times physical symptoms when you're less than your best can manifest or create some mental symptoms.

[00:19:39] So just like the physical injury you know I ended up just becoming very depressed there are a lot of things I couldn't do I went from working out every day and being able to deadlift and.

[00:19:50] And you know just spend a couple hours in the gym to not really being able to do much anything and it was getting really bad headaches it was just it was literally depressing.

[00:20:02] And yeah it's you know I think another one of those moments where it's important for you to have someone lean on someone to talk to.

[00:20:11] But yeah I just it's ironic that like that happened kind of immediately pre-COVID and most people you know.

[00:20:22] Life was great before COVID then COVID hit and you know they end up in a kind of a bad spot with all the isolation and.

[00:20:31] Kind of shelter in place and lock down everything.

[00:20:35] It happened it all happened before COVID for me and then during COVID I was actually in a really good place so yeah it was.

[00:20:46] A good six eight months where I just.

[00:20:50] I just felt kind of lost felt kind of useless.

[00:20:55] Because I had so many physical limitations and ended up just getting the best of me emotionally.

[00:21:01] And I was again I mentioned I had a physical therapist who was just fantastic and thanks to him I was able to avoid surgery on narrowly.

[00:21:16] You know he just kept saying to me he's like a lot of probably what will cause the injury was just you spend a lot of time as a writer sitting at your desk.

[00:21:26] Yeah you know you probably really tweaked your neck pretty bad when you're dead left thing but I don't think that's what caused it I just think that was kind of the.

[00:21:35] And then you know the final straw you said it's your posture and just spending so much time sitting in front of a computer looking at a screen punching over whatever might be.

[00:21:46] Because you need to keep your chin up in your chest out you just need to improve your posture from.

[00:21:51] And chin up chest out became my mantra.

[00:21:56] And that's kind of how I myself talk to getting a better place and it's interesting when you when you do adjust your body language you become a little bit more present and notice sort of how you're showing up.

[00:22:09] How that does affect your mindset and I just thought it's a great metaphor for how you ought to navigate life and decided to create a clothing brand around that chin up chest out of peril.

[00:22:22] And it's just kind of interesting how ideas germinate in our heads right.

[00:22:29] But that mantra was probably what ended up helping me more than anything else you know both physically and emotionally.

[00:22:37] And I just start signing off on all my emails and you know phone calls with that sort of slogan.

[00:22:46] And it just grew legs and got traction and people started kind of parroting that back.

[00:22:54] So you know we do had some t shirts and some other apparel.

[00:22:58] It's kind of have like your own advertising campaign about what you need to do to keep your mind right keep your attitudes straight.

[00:23:05] Yep.

[00:23:07] Oh, another brother great, great hinge moment man for sure.

[00:23:11] Appreciate you sharing that.

[00:23:15] We talked about in the big book of brew this one right here.

[00:23:21] It's huge, huge.

[00:23:23] It is huge man.

[00:23:24] That's what Trump called it.

[00:23:25] Trump called it huge.

[00:23:27] Bigly.

[00:23:29] Number one, number 162 to talk about B death.

[00:23:32] Talk about your daughter is deaf in some ways it's competitive advantage.

[00:23:35] Yeah.

[00:23:36] The negativity talks us about that one that lessons.

[00:23:39] And so, you know we were very fortunate that we moved from Maine to North Carolina before she was born.

[00:23:48] And my daughter been born in Maine.

[00:23:50] There's no newborn hearing screening in the state at the time that she was born this is in 2004.

[00:23:56] So she was born in North Carolina. She failed her newborn hearing screening.

[00:24:01] And that's when you know we immediately knew something was up.

[00:24:07] So what.

[00:24:10] Felt like something terrible again hinge moment something terrible to me like I'll know she's.

[00:24:18] Lacks one of her five senses how is she going to navigate the world being deaf house like.

[00:24:25] This is just going to.

[00:24:27] Really slow her her development socially emotionally academically the whole thing like just catastrophizing everything in my mind and.

[00:24:36] There was one.

[00:24:39] Evening where I am cleaning off her high chair should like one of those plastic clip on trays that go on like a kids high chair as an infant.

[00:24:50] And I wipe it down with a wet towel and I dry it off and she's tapping on.

[00:25:00] And she's like a table top.

[00:25:03] And like like yeah I just I just cleaned it off what would he need honey and she just points at this one spec in the corner where there's a grain of salt that apparently I missed a single grain of white table salt on this white plastic tray.

[00:25:26] And that's when the light bulb went on for me like oh.

[00:25:31] A lot of times our adversity is our advantage in life and when you're lacking in one of your five sentence senses your other senses are elevated.

[00:25:42] So like from it was kind of from that moment on I knew she had amazing attention to detail you know just visual acuity is off the charts.

[00:25:51] And just fine you know she's.

[00:25:56] 20 year old.

[00:25:58] Sophomore and college.

[00:26:01] Doing really well academically like all those worries we have early on.

[00:26:08] The things we worry about versus the things that come to fruition are often very different.

[00:26:14] But I just look at that anytime like something bad happens.

[00:26:19] As terrible as things can be like there's got to be some good in there somewhere like what was the message for us that we're trying that someone's trying to teach us.

[00:26:31] You know and in that case it was your other senses are heightened.

[00:26:37] And you know we saw that also early on just being involved in the deaf community.

[00:26:44] And so I was talking about my daughter's hearing age.

[00:26:50] She has some of her hearing.

[00:26:52] She's a moderate to severe hearing loss but my friend son is profoundly deaf.

[00:26:57] It's one of the best swimmers, one of the best high school swimmers in the state.

[00:27:01] And like how do races start Rob swim meets the gun with the gun right? Yeah.

[00:27:08] So the light at the end of the pool and the gun is supposed to be synchronized with the go light.

[00:27:16] Well what travels faster sound or light.

[00:27:21] Light is faster in the speed of sound so he couldn't hear the gun.

[00:27:26] Everyone else is responding to the gun. He's looking forward.

[00:27:30] He's up looking forward responding to that light going on.

[00:27:35] And he's off the blocks and into the water faster than many more talented swimmers so his adversity became his advantage.

[00:27:44] And you know if you look closely enough in your own life, you will find moments and situations like that where you think that you have something that's a bit of a challenge or struggle or your.

[00:27:58] So I'm way handicapped in your business maybe what it could actually be an advantage if you look even closer.

[00:28:06] Yeah, love it man. Love stories may dot in but let's keep it rolling coach brew the last away talk to us about what was the impetus the inspiration behind.

[00:28:18] You know leadership principles you put in this one.

[00:28:21] I will tell you this if you are listening to this podcast and you have not watched Ted Lasso yet.

[00:28:28] Where you think that seems dumb, I don't want to watch that or I'm not into soccer or whatever like I don't like Jason today because whatever you're thinking.

[00:28:38] Trust me on this, I felt the exact same way in my mind, I was saying all those things I had a dozen people recommend Ted Lasso to me.

[00:28:47] And I'm like, then sound like that's for me one of my close friends who is an awful lot like me and I'm not a big soccer fan.

[00:28:57] You know if you're going to play 90 minutes and scores give me zero zero and then you go home.

[00:29:02] Like I question all your life choices if you set up a game with rules like that you know.

[00:29:09] But one of my close friends said hey I was watching Ted Lasso I thought of you, you know I didn't think I was going to like your hand up really loving it.

[00:29:16] I think you would love it.

[00:29:18] I said all right Chris shout out Chris Fitzpatrick.

[00:29:21] Sorry I'll watch it.

[00:29:23] So start watching it and like this is not necessarily even really a show about soccer in a way is not even about sports.

[00:29:33] And so I think about the human condition it's about human relations.

[00:29:38] So my motivation to write the book was really.

[00:29:44] If I had like a professional Mulligan in life and I could go back and start my coaching career over again.

[00:29:51] I would want to be more like Ted Lasso.

[00:29:56] And I you know use basically.

[00:30:00] There's 10 chapters that describe just sort of, you know the human relation skills that he uses to navigate this new team that he's coaching in a foreign country and a sport that's really kind of foreign to him.

[00:30:15] I'm not going to spoil it for anybody.

[00:30:17] Also the book does not spoil the television series at all and that was by design.

[00:30:23] I think it's a huge warning on the first page where intentionally don't reveal specific examples from any of the episodes because I don't want to spoil the show for you.

[00:30:34] And if all you can do is afford to rent Apple TV long enough to binge the series or to buy my book don't buy my book watch the series.

[00:30:45] And so much. I was really just moved and influenced by it.

[00:30:51] You should use the book as kind of a companion to the series, but it's interesting we started this podcast talking about how like really we're all in the relationship business.

[00:31:02] You know you're not necessarily in the coaching business or teaching business or whatever.

[00:31:06] You know the insurance business real estate you're in the relationship business and more than anyone I understand it's a fictitious character and a fictitious.

[00:31:16] You know TV show like I get that, but more than anyone there's so much there's so much reality injected into this show and more than anyone Ted Lasso really exhibits the relationship skills that we should all possess as leaders.

[00:31:33] And I want to capture them. That's really what I did in this short pretty concise hard hitting book and there are a couple bonuses at the end, you know he brings his boss these.

[00:31:46] I was going to talk about that.

[00:31:48] Okay let's let's we'll cover that later but it's really me writing about the coach I wish I would have been using Ted Lasso is sort of the playbook for that.

[00:32:00] So you were about to give it away but I mean we can talk about this like one of the you know again with the British culture and their their affinity for biscuits cookies as we call him here.

[00:32:15] Ted Lasso's biscuits with the boss recipe had you find the recipe and I mean I'm looking forward to actually doing that man talk just about that one.

[00:32:26] There's and this isn't a spoiler one of the things Ted does to try and build a relationship with the owner of the team is he brings us little pink box as four shortbread cookies they call biscuits just four shortbread cookies in it.

[00:32:42] He's plunks an owner desk every morning first thing in the morning and he gets to work.

[00:32:47] And she'll have her tea and eat those cookies and she found it really annoying and his whole idea was like let's break bread together literally and talk about your vision for the ball club and she didn't want to do that at all.

[00:33:05] So I'll just leave these cookies with you.

[00:33:09] And then he kept leaving them she kept not wanting to talk and eventually because a he was consistent b he was generous and see they're really good biscuits he finally like wore her down against her better judgment she's like hey you know don't leave sit down let's talk one day.

[00:33:29] And that's when you really start to see them progress not just with their relationship but with the organization.

[00:33:37] I just think there's so much to be said for the informal moments you have, you know whether it's with a teacher and a student a player in a coach, a manager and employee whichever the case may be as you're listening to this.

[00:33:51] You know there's way more impact that you can have in those informal moments over a cup of coffee some biscuits, a bagel whatever then in that like quarterly performance review or your end of the year quote formal meeting.

[00:34:07] And you know you like to say it's chestnut checkers and Ted lasso is a great example of that he was playing chess on day one he knew she might not eat him.

[00:34:18] He knew she might not want them he knew she might not invite him to sit down, but he was playing the long game with that and just building that social equity that finally led to some breakthrough conversations.

[00:34:31] And that's something anyone can do in their workplace they just need to find their own version of that.

[00:34:38] I just found online through like a Ted lasso message board it might have been like a red thread and there are a couple of different variations and all you know how it is on reddit.

[00:34:52] All these people are just like bickering back and forth no this is the real one. No, this is you're missing this ingredient no I'm not like so I just kind of like sifted through that and like okay this one makes sense let me try making it.

[00:35:05] It came out I'm not a cook and it came out pretty good so I'm like yeah we're going to roll with that it seems like the most factually accurate of the recipes.

[00:35:13] Yeah my daughter loves to bake and I was always fascinated this is a little tangent coach but I was always fascinated by the sifting process because I was like we just put it in there like what could be the difference.

[00:35:28] That's actually sifting but it makes a big difference doesn't how do you think that one applies to life.

[00:35:35] Well I think that it can apply in a lot of ways the way anything it might be most applicable is simply there is so much being thrown at us on a daily basis.

[00:35:48] That a lot of people really have lost the ability to use discernment.

[00:35:54] And so whether it's sifting through data sifting through all the stuff that gets thrown at you, you know on your smartphone every day or social media feed emails to do lists or whatever you know being able to sift out the garbage you know garbage and garbage out sit out the garbage and just focus on the meaningful important things.

[00:36:15] I'm not sure if that's where you were going with sifting and baking is an analogy but it's a me to do it comes to mind for me.

[00:36:22] I love it man.

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[00:36:47] Coach brew what questions should I be asking that they're not asking.

[00:36:54] What would I think Ted lasso super power is.

[00:36:59] And I'm glad you asked that Rob while I think that Ted lasso super power is yeah he's got great human relation skills but the super power with that is he doesn't think he has all the answers and he's willing to listen to his players.

[00:37:16] That's where if I had that professional Mulligan and I could go back.

[00:37:21] I would love to be a better listener.

[00:37:25] And you know people support a world they get the help create and you know they when they have more feedback and input they're going to have more buy in.

[00:37:40] I just wonder if I was able to kind of use some Ted lasso's human relation skills a little better how much more mileage I would have gotten on my team.

[00:37:50] How much closer my relationships would have been with some of my players that might have been harder to reach.

[00:37:56] You know the ability to go back and practice that would been wonderful.

[00:38:00] But I think his super power really is you know like he took the equipment manager who washed the uniforms and you know put out the cones at practice.

[00:38:12] He made him assistant coach why the guy knew more about soccer than Ted lasso in his you know assistant that he brought over from the US because they coach American football.

[00:38:22] And just the willingness to put your ego on a shelf.

[00:38:27] And accept feedback except constructive criticism be open to ideas is huge for anyone in any industry.

[00:38:41] I want to turn to tables on this interview and ask, oh I don't know but we're out of time.

[00:38:47] All right go ahead coach what what's a time where you initially might have discounted somebody's thoughts or feedback but then you really kind of slept on a thought about it you know and decided to use that input and we're pleasantly surprised and got a wonderful result.

[00:39:10] So man every day.

[00:39:14] Every day I will, I mean unfortunately one of the pieces I've always tried working on is you know I would hear something received something and just automatically like because that's way my mind works.

[00:39:31] It just automatically kind of like dismisses it and say that's that's kind of silly.

[00:39:36] Until I can kind of digest and see or what's the real message in there. And I think the reason why is because you know let's look at the micro Jordan quote the I've taken I've missed 10,000 shots that's why I made it.

[00:39:55] Well that quote gets recirculated so much every time I come across it I kind of get sick of it you know my god just don't really want that quote anymore is a little out of context.

[00:40:08] Well.

[00:40:11] I think that context works but I guess that was my thing so to answer the question so often when I receive information I need to let sit there and then I think about it and then I come back to it's the only way my mind is able to discern all right well what is what is really truth what is what's the angle here the approach that that can work.

[00:40:34] I've been blessed with like a good memory so I can remember things like that but too often.

[00:40:40] I mean so many of my ideas are you know bar from you you know and again I'll give you an attribution and keep the royalties on it but yeah a lot of the stuff is borrowed.

[00:40:53] And I would think about like some of the techniques in terms of whether it's speaking or delivering a point or getting something across in a novel way sure so that one answers the question.

[00:41:10] Yeah, I think you know you're married and you have kids you know our wives and our kids tend to be right way more than we realize.

[00:41:22] And so I'm used to it every day.

[00:41:25] I thought that's where you were going with it but yeah.

[00:41:29] Well see I can edit this and this is my podcast.

[00:41:33] It's kind of funny you say that because I got one of my friends and I exchange just like funny memes you know on a daily basis via text and I'm sending him like the Travis Kelsey yelling at Andy Reed and the Super Bowl from a couple of weeks ago.

[00:41:48] Meam and captioning it he sends me a meme of a prostitute like dressed up in high heels short skirt leaning into the passenger side of a car.

[00:42:00] And you're seeing like from head on you know through the camera lens and the guys looking over at her is like how much will it cost me for you to tell me I'm right.

[00:42:11] Yeah, so like clearly like his wife tells him he's wrong all the time because well yeah usually we are wrong or so those things.

[00:42:21] So like he's going to hire a professional to just humor him and tell him he's right.

[00:42:26] But yeah, yeah I think our spouses and our kids sometimes are our best teachers to kind of bring it back on track.

[00:42:36] Yeah, when we digest the idea and we listen to feedback teachers and parents and coaches like we point the finger but they hold up the mirror.

[00:42:47] Yep.

[00:42:49] Thanks for joining us man.

[00:42:52] My pleasure thank you.

[00:42:59] Thanks for listening to mental toughness with Dr. Rob Bell to find out more about Dr Rob visit his website.

[00:43:05] at drrobbell.com or follow him on Twitter at Dr. Rob Bell and subscribe to the show on your favorite podcast platform to get the next episode of mental toughness as soon as it's available.

[00:43:18] Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time.

[00:43:35] you